Media:
“’We live a serene and tolerant Islam,’ acknowledged Farid Saenong…”
Reality:
Indonesia: 19-year-old Muslim and his parents arrested, foiling plan for jihad suicide bombings at two churches — August 12, 2024
Indonesia: Muslims riot and demand that church stop its worship services — July 28, 2024
Indonesia: Muslim officials stop wedding ceremony and ban church from further meetings at site — July 23, 2024
Indonesia: Muslim local official and his family disrupt Christian worship in area of Java island — May 26, 2024
Indonesia: Muslims attack Catholic students with knives — May 17, 2024
Indonesia: Muslim neighbors break up Christian worship service — April 1, 2024
Indonesia: 74-year-old Christian imprisoned a second time for blasphemy — December 24, 2023
Indonesia: Bowing to Muslim pressure, officials vow to withdraw permission to build Christian school — October 21, 2023
Indonesia: Muslim woman gets two years in prison for saying Muslim prayer before eating pork — September 21, 2023
Indonesia: Machete-wielding Muslim threatens to cut Christians’ throats unless they stop worship service — September 10, 2023
“Pope’s visit to Indonesia: Francis encounters a moderate and tolerant Islam,” by Dorian Malovic, La Croix International, September 3, 2024:
…In the Muslim world, the Indonesian Islam that Pope Francis will encounter from September 3 to 6 is an exception. Neither a secular state nor a theocracy, Indonesia (with 280 million inhabitants) presents a religious face that is predominantly Muslim (88%) but with great ethnic and spiritual diversity. It is a mosaic of sensibilities, ranging from total tolerance to extreme rigidity. One of the singularities of this vast country, over 4,000 kilometers long and scattered across thousands of islands, is that they communicate to maintain national unity.
“We live a serene and tolerant Islam,” acknowledged Farid Saenong, president of the education and research program at Jakarta’s Istiqlal Mosque, the largest in Southeast Asia, which can accommodate more than 110,000 worshipers. “Even though there is a wide range of sensitivities within the Indonesian Muslim family,” continued this graduate in social anthropology, “we have debates, and everyone can express their opinions, differences, and disagreements. And we are fortunate today to have moderate political leaders.”
For Imran Mohamed Taib, founding director of the Dialogue Center in Singapore and a leading expert on Asian Islam, “The more you study Indonesian Islam, the more you understand Islam, and the less radical you become. This is the mystery of the Indonesian system, which is an open society where women play a major role. This alchemy cannot tolerate radicals and terrorism, even though the danger still exists.”
For the highly respected theologian Mukti Ali Qusyairi, who teaches at the Grand Mosque, three major reasons explain this uniqueness: “Within our Islam, even though there is only one dogma, there is a bubbling of ideas that allows for a great variety of interpretations, preventing us from falling into extremism.”…
somehistory says
Yeah, like some rattlesnakes are not carrying death in their fangs; some mozlums haven’t yet murdered, but time hasn’t stopped, the earth is still turning and the sun shines.
.
Some in indonesia have not yet murdered a Christian neighbor, nor publicly flogged a mozlum couple for hugging.
but others have….time and again so we hear and see them on the web.
didn’t one of their clerics say there is no “moderate islam”? And mozlums don’t “tolerate” anything they don’t like. It must be punished.
Taffy says
When will the world learn that Islam is Islam is Islam? Maybe the jihad aspect undulates, just as rabid animals go through phases where they don’t viciously bite. But the religion’s framework is such that when several Muslims (or even a loner) get a bug in their head that they will attack the infidels or another Muslim who does not worship “correctly,” the Jihadi within them breaks out.
rick says
We may be seeing the last days of Islam as we understand it. Either that or Islam will go out “with a bang”, meaning a Nuclear bang. This is a so called religion desperate for a Reformation. There is so much that is wrong with it that needs changing from child marriages, “honor killings”, references to “infidels”, hatred of Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddha=ism, etc. {And most of all hatred of themselves.} Ancient practices and codes that make the Hatfield-McCoys look comic book in comparison. All of this is predicated on a huge inferior complex. Every sector of the planet is moving ahead except Muslims. In 1947, China and the Muslim world were somewhat even but now the Chinese have left the Muslims so far behind. And the time when Muslims actually made contributions to the world is so long ago that it is as if nothing good was ever achieved by them. They are stuck in the 10th Century and going no where. That breeds resentment of ones place in the world and that feeling breeds car bombs. The dangerous part is that Iran is on the verge of being a nuclear power with rocket technology. Iranians are not a stupid people. Far from it. But mullah rule is a disaster for them and even worse for us. And Israel, little Israel, has beaten multiple Muslim armies from much larger nations time and time again. Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq and Iranian proxies like Hezbollah, Houthies and Hamas. Muslims are walking dead men with a nuclear weapon, a horrible combination.
Raymond Bullock says
Well said. When the foundation is beset with contradictions, horrific inhumanity against the rest of the whole world, and is tottering from one mess to the next: Where’s the Love? Joy? Beauty? Truth? Goodness? Hospitality toward fellow human beings? Sadly buried under the many sayings in the Koran to kill you neigbor, kill the jews, kill the Christians, Kill the non-believers whereever you find them.
rick says
Surprised you didn’t mention that brutal attacks by Muslim Indonesians on Chinese Indonesians.. Here is Wikipedia on this:
The May 1998 Indonesia riots (Indonesian: Kerusuhan Mei 1998), also known colloquially as the 1998 tragedy (Tragedi 1998) or simply the 98 event (Peristiwa 98), were incidents of mass violence, revolutionary protests, and civil unrest in Indonesia in May 1998, many of which were targeted at Indonesia’s ethnic Chinese population. The events were mainly in the cities of Medan, Jakarta and Surakarta, with small incidents in other regions of the country.
Under the Western-backed Suharto, there had been widespread and systematic discrimination against ethnic Chinese in Indonesia. The riots were triggered by corruption, economic problems, including food shortages and mass unemployment. It eventually led to the resignation of President Suharto and the fall of the New Order government, which had been in power for 32 years and heavily backed by Western powers such as the United States. The main targets of the violence were ethnic Chinese Indonesians, but most of the casualties were caused by a massive fire and occurred among looters.
It was estimated that more than a thousand people died in the riots.At least 168 cases of rape were reported, and material damage was valued at more than Rp3.1 trillion (US$260 million). As of 2010, legal proceedings regarding the riots were stalled and not completed.
Tony Rice says
We met a tolerant and serene Islam, meaning there are other versions ! As the world well knows ,but trust Il Papa to voice only the best, overlooking of course he would have been shown only the best, serene and tolerant. Tolerant of whom and what by the way? THAT is a “give away “. Has Islam fallen on its own sword?
somehistory says
Good points, Tony.
What “other versions” are there, he should be asking.
Hoi Polloi says
Any entity that must constantly tell me that it’s XXXX, whatever XXXX is, is most certainly not XXXX. Don’t believe your lying eyes, they constantly say. Well, I’ll believe my eyes rather than their lying tongues. Islam is a sex and death cult and no Christian would ever continually defend it the way this pope does.
somehistory says
Exactly right. He’s no Christian. A mozlum….in a white dress to fool the sheep he pretends to shepherd.
abu taleb says
I think that in European countries like Britain or France, there are more Islamic violence toward non muslims than in Indonesia. And also, the percentage of muslims who are hostile toward non muslims in such European countries is higher than in Indonesia.
It is not that I disagree that the tolerance toward non muslims in Indonesia is no good at all, but we should focus more on western countries because I believe western countries are the ones who will become real Islamic countries or at least face civil war against the Islamists than Indonesia.
People should realize that the fate of non muslims in the world actually depends on the US and Europe, once Europe and US fall, then the rest will fall too. But strong and anti Islam of US and Europe will stop any Islamic progress.
Andrew Blackadder says
Uninformed morons like that wee Popey fella think that Indonesia is moderate islam just as they say the same thing about neighboring Malaysia which has made the word ”alah” illegal to be spoken in public by non muslims claiming that the Arabic word allah is for use by muslims only even though Malaysia is not an Arabic speaking Nation.
Also Malaysia now made it clear to all Chinese and Indians that when they have a Festival going down the street singing and dancing that they must be totally silent when they pass a mosque but can continue once past.
What islam thinks of as tolerant is not the same as what normal people think of tolerance but then common sense aint too common anymore.
Gilbert Fennell says
We have visited Java a lot and found the general population where my wife lives in East Java to be o.k. and the people friendly, but in other places like West Java and Acheh and the Minangkabau area in Sumatra to be more exclusive. Provided you accept the books of the Bible they accept, viz. the Psalms of David and the Proverbs, you can tell them good news for their lives as I was able to for the 300 or so graduates of the English School in Pare led by an Immam we know,in Pare near Kediri,, East Java, where we have a hostel we had built and designed ourselves for the students. They all want to talk with you if you want to talk about their lives, hopes and concerns, and about God and His grace, if you are willing to find out more about them personally, and they like you.a lot.. We have found generosity and friendship among a lot of these people , many of whom will have further education in Australia, America and England, even N>Z> after they finish their English studies .Actually. the largest Christian community in the world among the Batak people is found in North Sumatra. Since Indonesia will soon become the 5th largest economy in the world we need to update our views. We know that the terrorist attacks in the past came mainly from Mindanao and Malaysia as you know, rather than from Indonesia.