Many Americans were glad when Trump turned down the Saudi crown prince’s desperate telephone plea for the Americans to bomb the Houthis. They remembered how Saudi Arabia had denied the American air force permission to use the bases it had been using in Saudi Arabia to attack Iran. And the Saudi request for help is particularly astounding when you consider that the Royal Saudi Air Force (RASF) has between 210 and 230 active F-15 fighter jets in its inventory. This gives the Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) the largest fleet of F-15s in the world outside of the United States. Yet the Saudis have over many years been unable to bomb the Houthis in Yemen into submission. And now the Crown Prince, despite those hundreds of planes, and knowing his pilots are not up to the job, was hoping that America would do the fighting for his country against the Shia Houthis.
Americans are also well aware that Saudi officials provided financial and logistical support to at least two of the 9/11 hijackers, and that a succession of American administrations have refused to release the information about Saudi involvement in those attacks. At the 9/11 ceremony this year, the widow of a man who died in that attack publicly demanded that Saudi Arabia “stop lying” and called on the President to release all the information about Saudi involvement in the attacks that successive administrations in Washington government have until now withheld.
The request by Saudi Arabia for the Americans to bomb because the Saudis, despite their fabulously outfitted air force, know their own pilots are not up to it, may remind us of an event that took place in Saudi Arabia in 1979, when six hundred men under the command of Juhayman ibn Muhammad ibn Sayf al-Otaybi took over the Grand Mosque in Mecca on Nov. 20, 1979. Al-Otaybi considered the Saudi royal family as insufficiently faithful, corrupt, and determined to “modernize” — that is, to make more like the Infidel world — Saudi society. He called for an uprising against the Saudi rulers.
For more than a week, the Saudi forces were unable to dislodge the rebels on their own, so they finally called upon French special forces, who advised them to pump tear gas into the ground so that it would fill the underground level of the Grand Mosque where the rebels were located, and force them to surrender. The Saudis promptly followed the French advice, pumped in the gas, and the rebels surrendered. They were promptly executed. Had the Saudis not relied on the French forces, the retaking of the Grand Mosque, which took two weeks, might have gone on for much longer. On its own, the Saudi military has proved most ineffectual.
Now the Saudis have been warned. If you deny America the use of the air bases in Saudi Arabia where its planes and pilots have been stationed, as the Saudis did during the war between the U.S. and Iran last winter, when the King Sultan airbase was declared off-limits to American war fighters, there will be consequences. For a long time, the Saudis have taken America for granted. There was a story once making the rounds about a high-ranking Saudi official who, pointing to a group of American pilots stationed in the Kingdom, told a visitor that “these are my blue-eyed slaves.” I have been unable to track down the source, so it may be apocryphal, but it does express the Saudi assumption of superiority to the Infidels who provide the Saudis with security, viewed in Riyadh as little more than hired hands, buckaroos riding F-15s and F-35s instead of horses.
Surely now is the time to release whatever information the American government possesses about Saudi officials and the 9/11 terrorists. Saudi Arabia’s rulers are in a tizzy. The government, shocked at Trump’s unwillingness to send his planes and pilots to do the Saudis’ fighting for them, does not know where to put its feet and hands. It may become even more desperate as the Houthis continue to block Saudi ships from using the Bab al-Mandab Strait, seize still more Yemeni territory from the Saudi-backed Yemeni national government, and strike more Saudi oil installations and airbases, seemingly at will. And if the Americans are disinclined to help, what about the two Muslim nations — Pakistan and Turkey — with which Saudi Arabia sign the Mecca Agreement on August 7? This mutual defense pact should have triggered Turkish and Pakistani military aid to Saudi Arabia, once the Houthis had closed the Red Sea to Saudi shipping and started bombing Saudi airbases. Where are those Turkish and Pakistani armed forces now? Why are they not fighting the Houthis? Or is this Mecca Agreement a military pact empty of real meaning?
ploome says
brilliant exposition
ploome says
https://www.ancient-origins.net/only-nation-god-refused-forgive-dark-secret-amalekites-00102625
In the annals of the ancient Near East, few peoples have left as profound and controversial a mark on religious memory as the Amalekites. Though they appear exclusively in the Hebrew Bible and have left no clear archaeological footprint, they stand out as the archetypal, unforgivable enemy of the Israelites. No other nation in Scripture receives quite the same eternal declaration of divine war:
Who Were the Amalekites?
https://biblehub.com/q/Why_did_Amalek_ambush_Israelites.htm• Descendants of Esau’s grandson Amalek (Genesis 36:12).
• Trans‐Sinaitic pastoralists who oscillated between the Negev, Paran, and north‐western Arabia (Numbers 13:29).
• Reputation: “first among the nations” in aggressive hostility (Numbers 24:20). Contemporary Bedouin inscriptions (Timna copper‐mines; 13th c. BC) record similar camel‐raiding tactics.
• Religion: polytheistic animism, child sacrifice (later mirrored in Agagite Haman, Esther 3:1; 9:24).
40 rounds says
Anybody else tired of the Saudis?
ploome says
tired of islam and muslims
OLD GUY says
Saudi Arabia is NOT our friend, they are using us and spending billions of dollars to infiltrate our education system, corporations and political systems.
somehistory says
the muzzies sent some of their *pilots* to the U.S. to train. One of them murdered 3 Americans and wounded others, in Pensacola, Florida. in 2019
To me, that would be reason enough to say, “no way,” never.
40 rounds says
Saudi would be a pushover to occupy and reducate into the 21st century. Who would object and why should we care? Of course we would have to “protect” mecca
࿗Infidel࿘ says
Hugh
A reasonably comprehensive coverage of the Saudis. Particularly their Air Force: they have even a larger air force than Israel, but none of their citizens are competent enough to learn how to fly them. I am a tad surprised that the Houthis haven’t figured out a way to totally wipe out all those planes in a pre-emptive strike: from what I have read, the Saudis treasure those planes immensely, since they pay billions for them, and so don’t want to risk any of them getting damaged
On the 9/11 issue, I was under the impression that the sealed parts of the 9/11 “28 pages” were part of a 2002 congressional joint inquiry report into the 9/11 attacks, not the official 9/11 Commission Report (which was published in 2004) – was declassified and released on July 15, 2016, and even more parts in 2021, after Biden ordered more unsealed (one of the rare good things he did as POTUS). From whatever has been released, I’m not sure that there are subsequent parts to it. There is also a “continuity” issue, and given all the policy changes done by MbS, it’s debatable whether his government is the same as the government of his uncle, who used to gloat that Americans are his White slaves who’d do what he wanted at the flick of a finger
While I had been critical of the Trump MOU and a lot of things either he or Vance have said or done, this is the one area where the “5D chess” adulations of him seem justified. After the 60 day war, the US simply stalled attacks and only retaliated for attacks on US assets. While the islamic republic was now in a bind: they could neither attack the US w/o retaliation, nor could they dare attack Israel, b’cos Jerusalem would then have taken out the rest of their leadership (reminds me of the Bush Iraqi pack of cards). But neither could they have done nothing. As it is, they have richly earned the deep hatred of both the Israelis and the Americans (excluding the Groypers and the Neocoms – my new twist on “Neocon” that was used to hit at Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz) as well as the overwhelming majority of Iranians, who loathe them to the point that they’ve gone all the way to apostatize from islam
However, the one thing that the islamic regime knows it can not afford to lose is the support of its residual supporters – the 5-20% who are still hardcore Durqhas, and who actually believes in the drivel that the regime puts out. Those are the foot soldiers they can bribe to keep supporting the regime so long as they believe in it. But the moment even those moronic supporters notice a disconnect b/w regime rhetoric and reality, their support will go away. They can attack the US & burn up our interceptors. But they dare not attack Israel, whose retaliation won’t be regime refineries or power plants, but rather leadership targets – be it Pezeshkian, Rezaei, Ghalibaf, Araghchi, Vahidi, et al. But they can’t also do nothing, so they end up launching attacks on the Arab countries around them, or get their 2 remaining proxies – Ansar Allah (the Houthis) or Hashd ash Shabi (Popular Mobilization Front of Iraq) to launch those attacks on Saudi Arabia
So far, the Saudis have been resisting getting the Israelis involved, b’cos although MbS is perfectly happy to be friends w/ everybody – from Beijing to Jerusalem, their population still is not completely disabused of its antisemitism, which is why that’s the last option that Riyadh wants to consider. However, this is where Trump has been brilliant. He has rebuffed Saudi requests for any intervention – coincidentally (IMO) mollifying the faction of MAGA that’s against US involvement in the war, and told them to find their own solutions. The Saudis went to 2 of their erstwhile rivals for the leadership of the ummah – Turkey and Pakistan and did the “Mecca Agreement”, but those 2 supposedly devout muslim countries made a joke out of that “alliance”. As one wag put it in @X, it turns out that the Mecca Agreement doesn’t even cover Mecca! Finally they begged Israel, who provided enough intel for them to intercept the attempt on Mecca
But at this point, both the US and Israel should increase their price tags. The US need not have the same demand as Israel: we should demand that Saudi Arabia turn over any and all people connected to the 9/11 hijackers, while Israel can demand that if RIyadh wants any Israeli support, be it intel or actual attacks on the Houthis (who, while declaring that Saudi ships are banned from the Bab el Mandab, have exempted not only US but also Israeli ships), then not only do they have to sign the Abraham Accords, but that they also have to have their embassy in Jerusalem, and they need to endorse a proposed Israeli annexation of Judea and Samaria. Nothing short of that should be acceptable to Jerusalem, and they should stop looking like they are the ones desperate for this agreement to be signed
Keys says
Infidel –
I always appreciate reading your well-informed perspective here. Two questions in regard to MbS and the Saudis:
To what extent in the near and far future can Saudi Arabia be trusted, given an MbS type leader may not be in control?
The current Israeli leadership thinks it is a serious mistake for the Trump administration to sell 48 F-35s to the Saudi Arabia. What are your thoughts on this sale, especially given your comments on the competence of Saudis to fly even their F-15s ?
Huapakechi says
Those F35s with incompetent pilots could well be equipped with a remote shut down switch that would render them flying bricks..
࿗Infidel࿘ says
Keys
Thanks for your questions
On MbS, he has had 10 years so far to reform, and while it’s welcome, it has been gradual. For instance, in 2018, they lifted the ban on women driving, and in 2019, the requirement for a mahram. In 2019, they lifted the ban on non-muslims visiting Medina, although the ban for Mecca has yet to be lifted. In 2020, they ended the funding of mosques and islamic institutions in other countries. In 2021, they started removing hatred of Jews & Christians from their curricula, which was completed this year. In 2021, they started reforming the Kafala system by which workers were sponsored into KSA and finally abolished it in 2025, replacing it w/ a contract based system
For these reasons, I don’t fully agree w/ those who say that the Saudis are not our friends. They were completely accurate when Fahd and Abdullah were their rulers. But as the above list shows, MbS has ensured that they are on the right trajectory. While it’s true that Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy and that the ruling family has totalitarian powers, they’re still not powerful enough to instantly de-islamify the country, so one should look at their trendlines. Another Arab country w/ an MbS like ruler, such as Jordan, Syria, Egypt, might have pulled it off. But Saudi Arabia also contains Mecca & Medina, which makes this that much more difficult given their standing in the OIC
I don’t quite agree w/ the Israelis that selling F35s to Riyadh is a mistake. Selling advanced weaponry to the Saudis is like selling a 10 carat diamond to a beauty queen: she’s rarely likely to take it out of storage. That’s how the Saudis look at their toys: having spent billions on them, they are loathe to use them. The jets that their pilots can fly – they value those jets, but not the lives of their pilots. The US is not even selling toys to the Saudis: they’re selling jewelry. But if this regime ever falls & the Wahabis or the muslim brotherhood takes over, then they may indeed try to use those, assuming that they have better luck in finding jihadist pilots. That is the one scenario where Jerusalem is right to be concerned
Given all of the above, I do think that we should be a tad more careful in our dealings w/ Riyadh. Right now, it looks like how we dealt w/ the Shah in 1979, albeit from a different stance – winking at the islamic republic’s proxies and them inadvertantly becoming ours. The reforms that the Saudis have done to date clearly influence their Gen Alphas and Zoomers, but their Millennials, Gen X’ers and Boomers are still the old school Wahabi-taught Durqhas. Which is why if this monarchy falls now, the Wahabis or the muslim brotherhood are more likely to take over than a Emirati-style ruler. Which is why Trump should be a tad less sanguine about the Houthis
Keys says
Infidel, thank you for your generous and informative reply. I liked your “10 carat diamond” analogy for the F-35s !
I certainly agree that Jerusalem is right to be concerned should this monarchy fall, which is always a possibility given the nature of Islam and its fatwa issuing leaders. In that case, it seems likely that the F-35 technology would be shared with like-minded regimes working for the expansion and eventual domination of Islam.
I appreciated your listing of MbS’s gradual, cautious reforms. Should he gradually go too far (ex: Abraham Accords, Embassy in Jerusalem, allow Bibles, allow Christian home gatherings, then Churches, then open Mecca to non-Muslims , etc), he would likely be assassinated, like Sadat in Egypt.
࿗Infidel࿘ says
Keys
Thanks for your response. I do agree w/ you that MbS has to be cautious about how he proceeds, and that if he overdoes it, he could face the fate of Sadat in Cairo
However, both the US and Israel are right to want to put pressure on the Arabs to make peace w/ Israel before the islamic regime in Iran falls. B’cos once the regime falls, there will be no other threat to the Arabs, and they may feel free and comfortable resuming their jihad against Israel. That has to be pre-empted, and for that to happen, while the islamic regime is still around and lobbing missiles and drones at the Arabs, they should be coerced into following the example of the Emirates and Bahrein 6 years ago, so that once the islamic regime falls, there will be genuine peace in the region, barring Turkey
On one hand, the day after, there may well be Arabs who don’t want a renewal of the Ottoman suzerainty over themselves, and who may prefer to ally w/ Israel against Erdogan. But a lot of other Arabs, like the Palis, the Syrians, Qataris,… may decide that sunnis Turkey, although non-Arab like Iran, is at least sunni unlike the islamic regime, and therefore may rally behind it. Turkey already has enough Arab countries willing to be its vassals – Syria, Palis (both Fatah and Hamas), Qatar, the Houthis, Somalia, Algeria, Libya’s GNA and so on
Which is why it’s a good idea for Israel to get as many Arab countries signing Abraham Accord like agreements w/ them, followed by a Cyrus Accords w/ a secular, democratic Iran. That could discourage other Arab countries from allying w/ Turkey
Mike says
Strong with the weak (ie, terrorism on the innocent), weak with the strong (incapable of winning in wars). That defines these people.
abu taleb says
The Saudis always feel they are superior than other people, so they don’t really want to work as there are a lot of foreigners are willing to do the job for them, for money of course. The kingdom gives support to its people, so local Saudis do not have to work hard to earn money and just simpy show of at their working places, the heavy load of work is done by the foreigners.
That is why the Saudi military is not capable even though they have the best military equipments.
࿗Infidel࿘ says
Yeah, their authorities have been doing a good job eroding the Wahabi influence in their society. But they need to go beyond that, and start working on programs to find them gainful work, and start ramping down the subsidies that the population gets. Now is a good time: use the attacks on their oil facilities as a pretext to tell their people – we are under attacks by our shi’a enemies, so we’ll need to change the way we do things. He partly had the right idea w/ Neom/The Line project, but should have used it like the UAE did to modernize/harden the infrastructure. Like the East-West pipeline is above ground, rather than underground, which made it a sitting duck for Hashd ash-Shabi
The reforms that they did over the last 10 years were okay, but they need to ramp that up, given their policy of wasting money in unimaginable scales
austin262@hotmail.com says
https://www.meforum.org/middle-east-quarterly/why-arabs-lose-wars
Why Arabs Lose Wars,Norville de Atkine
Mike says
They’re just utter crap: No one remembers it but they tried to unify and send 150,000 ground troops in 2015 into Yemen. They failed miserably.
https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2015/03/26/Pakistan-Egypt-join-military-campaign-against-Houthis
RightStuff1944 says
Look up Nicolai Sennels and his comments about Saudi pilots.
Walter Sieruk says
The Islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia in no friend of any Western nation, Saudi Arabia is best defined as a kingdom of Islamic hate.
As one Arab scholar who had lived in a Middle Eastern country, for many years revealed “Saudi madrassa notably teach hatred and condemnation of the West and non-Muslims” and “The Saudi Government also provides free textbooks to Islamic schools throughout the world . many of the Saudi- Issued textbook’s contain wording that encourages hatred and intolerance for non-Muslims.” [1]
Saudi Arabia in many ways is no better than Iran.
[1] THEY MUST BE STOPPED by Brigitte Gabriel, page 106
Walter Sieruk says
he Islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia has not and will not spare any of its vast oil wealth as to use its financial resources to fund and promote the advancement of Islam by and through the jihad. By this it means both the stealth jihad and even the subtle support violent jihad.
As explained, for example in the book HOW ISLAM PLANS TO CHANGE THE WORLD by William Wagner. For on pages 109, 110. The reader is informed that “The Wall Street journal on April 15, 2003 published an article titled ‘In law Seminars, A Saudi Group Spreads Extremism.’ The article began by saying ‘In late February more than 300 young men from across Europe gathered for a weekend seminar on Islamic Law put on by Al-Waqf al-Islaami Foundation.’ The article went on to explain that the most famous graduates from the seminar were half a dozen members of the group of young men from Hamburg, Germany, who plotted the September 11, attacks. The language of the was Dutch, but ‘the message was imported from Saudi Arabia, via Saudi books and lecturers who taught a strict orthodox interpretation of Islam.’ “
Further on the very same page of 110 the information is given that “TIME MAGAZINE , in an article on Saudi Arabia: Inside the Kingdom,’ stated ‘Apart from channeling money to foundations that have assisted terrorist groups, Saudis have for years supported institutions abroad the propagate Wahhabism.’”
So with that Islamic regime of Saudi Arabia and its oil money support the different type of the jihad, both stealth and the violent kind, with its Islamic agenda advancement and spread , influence and infiltration of the Western nations ,this kingdom of Saudi Arabia is no friend at all of America or any other country of the West.
Walter Sieruk says
It should be known and not forgotten that the Islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia has not and will not spare any of its vast oil wealth as to use its financial resources to fund and promote the advancement of Islam by and through the jihad. By this it means both the stealth jihad and even the subtle support violent jihad.
As explained, for example in the book HOW ISLAM PLANS TO CHANGE THE WORLD by William Wagner. For on pages 109, 110. The reader is informed that “The Wall Street journal on April 15, 2003 published an article titled ‘In law Seminars, A Saudi Group Spreads Extremism.’ The article began by saying ‘In late February more than 300 young men from across Europe gathered for a weekend seminar on Islamic Law put on by Al-Waqf al-Islaami Foundation.’ The article went on to explain that the most famous graduates from the seminar were half a dozen members of the group of young men from Hamburg, Germany, who plotted the September 11, attacks. The language of the was Dutch, but ‘the message was imported from Saudi Arabia, via Saudi books and lecturers who taught a strict orthodox interpretation of Islam.’ “
Further on the very same page of 110 the information is given that “TIME MAGAZINE , in an article on Saudi Arabia: Inside the Kingdom,’ stated ‘Apart from channeling money to foundations that have assisted terrorist groups, Saudis have for years supported institutions abroad the propagate Wahhabism.’”
In addition to all this, in the book of the title of THE HISTORY OF JIHAD FROM MUHAMMAD TO ISIS, by Robert Spencer on pages 333 through 337.Mr Spencer provides valid information of the subject of “ The Saudi involvement in September 11.”
So with that Islamic regime of Saudi Arabia and its oil money support the different type of the jihad, both stealth and the violent kind, with its Islamic agenda advancement and spread , influence and infiltration of the Western nations ,this kingdom of Saudi Arabia is no friend at all of the United Kingdom or America or any other country of the West.
Furthermore, the Islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia many times funds construction and reading material of many madrassas which are are Muslim mind control and mind programming places where Muslim males are thoroughly indoctrinated into the strong but blind and unquestioning faith in Koran with all non-watered down; hard core Islam with its militant jihad. Those places, “schools,” are called madrasas. In those Islamic mind programming centers young Muslim male are ingrain in the mindset Koranic dogma of the use of violence and killing for the advancement of Islam. As the Koran instructs. As in, for example, in 2:191. 9:5, 123. 47:4. Many of those who of such center are so much damaged that they are literally dangerous to self and others. As seen many times in jihad suicide, homicide bombing/attacks. For the Koran instructs in 9:111. “The believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, they kill and are killed.”
Furthermore, those mind programming places also ingrain the outlandish absurd Koranic doctrine of a ex-filled paradise with many virgins, houris, in it for the Muslim male who dies fighting for the cause of Islam in the jihad. Such a strange doctrine of a houris filled- place in found in the Koran in 44:54. 55:56. 78:31.
Moreover, such Islamic mind programming centers are further explained about by the scholar Don Richardson in his book SECRETS OF THE KORAN which on pages 69,70. Informs the reader that “The world needs to be warned. At least forty million Muslim youth in the Muslim worlds’ religious schools, called madrasa, are avidly memorizing the entire Koran … These schools become breeding grounds for potential terrorists. When male students, isolated from family and friends in madrasa, reach puberty and their hormones are active, there are no girls to date. Instead, Muslim clerics easily shift to focusing the male student’s attention on Koranic verse that promises sex in heaven with dark-eyed houris. Students can only fantasize about martyrdom followed by the sexual release Muhammad promised. This is an unspeakably cruel brainwashing technique , and the Koran is its perfect guidebook.”
In short, Saudi Arabia is very guilty of promoting Islamic terrorism as Iran.