The track record for another Iran Deal is as bad as it gets.
Nearly 250 years ago, the United States tried negotiating with Islamic pirate states to stop the capture of American ships and the enslavement of Americans. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams all learned the painful lesson that the negotiations were a trap.
Treaties would be signed, agreements would be reached and would soon be broken because Muslims could freely lie to ‘infidels’ and had a religious obligation to wage war on them.
“The precept of the Koran is perpetual war against all who deny that Mahomet is the prophet of God,” Adams summed it up. “The command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force.”
This isn’t ancient history, it’s current events as the United States once again conducts futile negotiations with an Islamic pirate and terrorist state to stop its attacks on international shipping.
Defenders of the negotiations have taken to hailing a deal with Iran as smart diplomacy while contending that Iran’s regime is moderate and critics of appeasing Jihadists are ‘warmongers’.
But if negotiating with Islamic terrorists is such a good idea, what is its track record?
The Carter administration negotiated the Algiers Accord with Iran to release the hostages. And having seen the success of taking hostages, Iran had Hezbollah and other Shiite Islamic front groups start taking hostages, torturing and killing them, and carrying out terrorist attacks.
That was our reward for negotiating a deal with Iran back then. It was our reward for negotiating a deal with Iran under Obama. And it’ll be our reward for negotiating a deal with Iran now.
Rewarding Iran for its terrorism just led to more terrorism. That’s happening all over again.
Iran’s only real card is closing the Strait of Hormuz so despite the latest agreement, it began opening fire on ships again. And we should expect that to continue until we put a stop to it.
Should we have seen this coming?
In its first term, the Trump administration also negotiated a deal through Qatar with Islamic terrorists. The Taliban quickly began violating the agreement and set out to seize control. While the Afghanistan withdrawal would probably not have been as disastrous under the Trump administration as it was under Biden, the basic outcome would have ended up the same.
In its second term, the Trump administration allowed the same people responsible for the Iran deal, Steven Witkoff and Jared Kushner, to negotiate a deal with Hamas that the terrorist group has repeatedly violated leading to smaller scale fighting and no actual progress. The Gaza ‘Board of Peace’ is set for a ‘reset’ summit in Cyprus after little to show for the last six months.
The Lebanon ceasefire has also been mostly fictional because Hezbollah has refused to stay behind the ceasefire lines (as it’s been doing for two generations) leading to more fighting, and to Iranian demands that the Trump administration provide political cover for Hezbollah attacks.
The fighting in Gaza is itself an outgrowth of the Clinton, Bush and Obama efforts to negotiate between Israel and various Islamic terrorist groups, most prominently the PLO, to create a ‘Palestinian’ terrorist state, but which only led to generations of escalating terrorist attacks.
Even a cursory history of our relationships with supposed Muslim allies like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan shows them seizing our assets, funding, harboring and planting Islamic terrorists in the United States and around the world while assuring us that they would never do such a thing.
The latest version of the Iran Deal is being negotiated through Qatar and Pakistan. Qatar had harbored 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed while Pakistan harbored Bin Laden.
The United States had been pleading with Pakistan to help with Bin Laden since 1998. In 1999, Pakistani officials assured us that their government was taking the Bin Laden ‘matter very seriously.’ And they were indeed. After 9/11, the United States directed at least billions in aid to Pakistan, hitting a high of over $800 million a year after the attacks, and reaching another high of $2.9 billion the year before the United States found him hiding in a Pakistani military town.
The Pakistani government claimed that we had ‘martyred’ him even while pretending it had no idea he was there. The Obama administration stepped down aid to Pakistan to a mere $1 billion a year.
15 years later, we’re trusting the people who harbored Bin Laden to help us with Iran. After a Pakistani massacre of non-Muslims in India, J.D. Vance pressured India to stand down. At the recent diplomatic meetings, Vance claimed, “we love Pakistan.” But Pakistan doesn’t love us.
No Islamic country does.
The track record of negotiations with Islamic terror states and even nations wouldn’t be so poor if there wasn’t a powerful underlying hostility and any lack of common values to build mutual trust and any lasting relationship around.
Vance may have to learn the same hard lesson that Jefferson and Adams did when they heard from the Tripoli ambassador that the aggression “was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that “it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”
But the history is already there and we should not need to be constantly relearning it.
Negotiating with Islamic terrorists has never worked. It’s not about to suddenly start working at this late date. The only thing that negotiating with Islamic terrorists leads to is more terrorism.
America’s Founding Fathers learned that nearly 250 years ago. We insist on forgetting it.
Walter Sieruk says
President Trump, along with his administration, have obviously scraped the US policy of “Not negotiating with terrorists.” For Trump is having negotiating with terrorist supporting chiefs of a terrorist rough terrorist regime.. Shame on Trump.
Walter Sieruk says
Those so called “peace negotiations” should be called off, because It’s time to finish the job , and liberate the people of Iran from that horrendous iron –fisted maliciously horrific Islamic regime. As it had been, rightly and wisely said “Half- measures in war is madness and folly.” I*n other words “Finish the job” by getting it over with and eliminate that dangerous hostile and menacing Islamic regime of Iran . For the sake of the Iranian people, for Armorica, for Israel and for all the civilized countries of the world.
Furthermore, It’s really foolishness and folly of President Trump to even attempt to have a genuine negotiate peace agreement with To Illustrate ,,according to the Bible in Genesis chapter 3 Eve talked with Satan through the serpent . The result of that was terrible disaster for her and her husband Adam and for all future humankind. Likewise, President being willing to negotiate with the sons of Satan, meaning those villains in power in that Islamic tyranny , will only result in awful terrible disaster for America, for Israel ,for the Iranian people and for the world.
Wellington says
Here’s an idea: All major schools of Islamic theology, Sunni or Shiite, consider non-Muslims the equivalent of human waste. Why not treat all Muslims this way and thereafter proceed and act accordingly? What is good for the goose is also good for the gander and so on.
Islam is the best disguised curse to man trying to free Himself from faith being placed above reason, a major error as many from Erigena to Ayn Rand have tried to point out over the course of many centuries. But so many faiths do not want to use force, actual violence, to enforce this “different priority.” Islam does and therein lies the ultimate menace of this belief system.
࿗Infidel࿘ says
Wellington
Years ago, on JW, I advocated a variation of this:
⮞ Take all islamic texts & jurisprudence manuals – qur’an, tafseer, sunnah…. and swap “muslim: and “Infidel” everywhere you find them. Eg muslims would be the worst of creatures, Infidels would be the best of people,….
⮞ Make that the operational law where muslims are concerned
How many muslims try to enter China and islamize that place? Even, or especially, historically muslim areas like Xinjiang? Once one does the above, muslims will all start making beelines to dar ul islam, probably back to their own countries
Wellington says
I seem to remember your doing this, Infidel, some years back and I think it an excellent idea. Stick it to ’em and all that.
Patton says
I am not sure anymore if American politicians, and western governments generally are well-intentioned when it comes to these things or if we are simply on the road to cultural suicide, as a means of showing the Third World, how multicultural intolerant we are. I voted for President Trump three times and he is a far cry better than the moronic/senescent Lets Go Brandon and the closeted moose slime B Hussein Obumshite. But this being said, Trump’s policies at this point our misguided and will never be productive. In dealing with these scumbags, we seek to work within a Westernized framework treating a negotiation with moose scums as if we were negotiating with South Korea, Japan or the EU. We assume an immorality and humanized desire desires as if they were grounded in biblical,, Judeo-Christian principles. This is both naïve and ultimately self-destructive. These are people ) and I’m using that term loosely because they are subhuman) who are members of an evil cult that is as pagan as those practiced thousands of years ago. They are not going to be logical. They are not going to be honorable. They are not going to want a better world for their children. They are not going to want peace. They are not going to want a multicultural, poor realistic, democracy, or other form of representative government. They aren’t gonna want any of these things. Their faith and their politics are inevitably intertwined based on a book written by someone, probably not there vaunted “profit” who believes the most perfect man wasn’t illiterate pedophile. There is no reason to be optimistic here folks. In the end, there will be an existential battle fought between the forces of good and evil. We can either do what we have to do to end this and cripple these sons of bitches are they will just continue what they’ve been doing for the last 47 years and consider the last year or so as just a brief pause toward their ordained March hegemony and domination over the people of the book, or the infidels or whatever the fuck they call us. Time to send more of them that we can count straight to hell. As the old saying goes from our friends at Nike, “just do it“.
Wellington says
Well stated. Too bad moderns in the West don’t comprehend what medieval folk in the West understood and that is that Islam is a mortal enemy of Western Civilization. Yeah, we now have cell phones, computers, cars, trains, planes, etc. (all invented by the West I would add contra what the dismal Islamic world has produced) but so what if you go sappy and gooey about Islam?
Man advances and retreats at the same time. No better illustrated than now.
Tim gallagher says
Very good summary of the situation, Patton. There is no getting along peacefully with Islam. The best approach to islam is the Hungarian and polish approach. You tell the barbaric, enemy Muslim scum to piss off and that way avoid all the evils and trouble the Muslims always bring. But sending as many of the evil scum off to hell is very good idea. What an improvement to the human race. What suffering and misery stinking Islam has caused.
somehistory says
Negotiating….almost always favors one side over the other, even when done in “good faith.”
When hostage negotiators are talking to bank robbers holding clerks and customers, they are also scoping out how to shoot the criminals in the head if they don’t give up. They’ll promise coffee, pizza , a plane to leave the country….And the police in those scenarios are the “good guys.”
Take muzzlims who never show “good faith,” and are **never, ever** the good guys and put them in a position of “negotiating,” they automatically assume (that’s a word for them, but it shouldn’t apply to infidels) that they will win whatever they seek.
If this is so apparent to us serfs (taxpayers), peons (definition from wiki “peonage developed in the Southern United States. Poor white farmers and formerly enslaved African Americans known as freedmen, who could not afford their own land, would farm another person’s land, exchanging labor for a share of the crops. This was called sharecropping. The land owner would pay for the seeds and tools in exchange for a percentage of the money ) a group I belonged to, then why can’t those who supposedly know more than us, see it?
They aren’t really more knowledgeable, or more intelligent than we are; it’s a pretense while they allow evil to grow and spread and consume, running roughshod over the innocent. It’s down and dirty
🙁 marked by or given to fierce often unscrupulous competition: Webster def ) evil.
somehistory says
If there are typos in my comments, I chalk them up to my poor eyesight…not my thinking ability.
I was not attempting to show a smiling face with the “down and dirty” definition from Wester. It was meant to be a (….only….a parenthesis. mark…shift of the 9
I take comfort in the fact that all….**all*** other commenters make typos, if only occasionally.
Ugly 312 says
And then there’s is me somehistory. I did not read a single typo. Truth be told I would not recognize one if it hit me in the face.
What i see most recently and should have seen long ago is a group of old white guys trying to apply western understanding and logic to a puzzle that does not play by any rules, historical, philosophical or even logical. This is Islamic/Middle Eastern negotiations at its best.
How djt and posse think for a second that they would be able to reason or negotiate with these death worshippers is just silly.
He will need to back his words up with actions no matter the cost to him politically. They will not abide by any agreement. They can’t. It’s part of their entire
belief system. Idle threats are embarrassing to America. Get it over with and let the dust settle, rinse, repeat until Iran is no longer a threat to anyone. May they all go to hell.
Richard
somehistory says
Thank you, Richard. I once could type without errors….days long gone, but I still try.
Yes, the situation demands that some people wake up, clear their heads and think rationally. And once they think, they need to accept responsibility for what is demanded of them because they presumed to tell the nation they could rule effectively and make decisions for everyone….millions are depending on them…and the decisions would be right and fair.
Acknowledgment regarding the evils of islime, is paramount.
Me….I’m really glad that I don’t put all my hopes on other humans to secure my future.
ploome says
lol
so you do read my typo ridden comments
Rick Gordon says
Send this essay to Secretary Rubio and any functionaries in the State Department who may give a damn … Someone said that ‘continuing the same behaviors, expecting a different result/outcome, is a fool’s errand’.
PLOOME says
and aslo send this
https://web.archive.org/web/20000816205526/http://www.islaam.com/articles/treaty.htm
.And now comes the most important question, that is: What is the duty today on the Muslim as regards these treaties?
The answer:
(1) The first duty is to firmly believe in their invalidity and that because they contain invalid conditions they were born dead the very day they were given birth to; because it is not lawful for the Muslim to conclude an agreement with the unbeliever for abandoning jihad and abrogating this religious duty, nor for giving up hostility towards the Jews and affirming love and amity for them; for this is leaving the millah. These treaties also contain provisions making it incumbent to screen out such Ayahs of the Quran and ahadith (statements) of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings of Allah be on him, that declare this enmity towards the Jews.
AND LOOK……….. The two men negotiating a treaty with the Iranians, are Luttnik and Kushner.
Jews
Walter Sieruk says
It’s a fool’s quest and an action pf complete folly to try to have worthwhile negotiations with those pathological liars who are the despots of that Islamic regime pf Iran , Be those “talks” be about the Straits of Hormuz , or or about anything else.
For it’s really foolishness of President Trump to even attempt to have a genuine talks with such evil men.
To Illustrate ,,according to the Bible in Genesis chapter 3 Eve talked with Satan through the serpent . The result of that was terrible disaster for her and her husband Adam and for all future humankind. Likewise, President being willing to negotiate with the sons of Satan, meaning those villains in power in that Islamic tyranny , will only result in awful terrible disaster for America, for Israel ,for the Iranian people and for the world.
saturnine says
“America’s Founding Fathers learned that nearly 250 years ago.”
If they really learned anything, they would have insisted upon a qualifier in the First Amendment. Instead of:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
… they would have written:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise of peaceful religions
That would’ve given us an opening to discriminate against Islam.
somehistory says
No matter the wording, those who want to do evil and allow evil, will find ways to make evil happen
It’s rather like the whole ‘birthright’ issue; the idiots use the wording of the 14 th to skirt what those who wrote it, meant.
It can also be illustrated by the many court cases which have addressed the 4 th and when “searches’ can take place.
It can also be illustrated by the Freedom of Speech….when flags were burned and threats are made and the cases end up with the Supremes.
And the “right to bear arms”….what a continuing mess that has been…
And using what Jefferson wrote apart from the Constitution about the ‘separation of church and state,’ which atheists have used to take Bible reading out of schools.
What you write wouldn’t solve those issues any better. “peaceful” would have to be defined…etc.
Frank Anderson says
“Those who cannot remember the lessons of the past are condemned to repeat them.” Jorge (George) Santayana, The Life of Reason (1905). Negotiating with Hitler worked to his advantage and to the harm of Neville Chamberlain and Edouard Daladier EVERY TIME it was undertaken. It was a waste, and an exercise of delusion and fantasy. Witkoff, Kushner and to my sadness, DJT are totally uninformed and delusional regarding Islamic teaching and history of dealmaking with their enemies. According to “final, perfect, complete and unchangeable” teachings and practice for 1400 years no promise to an enemy is binding as soon as it becomes inconvenient. Infidels cannot negotiate with believ4rw except to GIVE them advantage.
OLD GUY says
Islamic followers only recognize strength and power. Negotiation is nothing but them buying time to re-arm and change strategies We will have to defeat them in battle to total destruction of their leaders and close followers. And then we will have to pay close attention to the new leaders and their ideologies.
.
bill says
The prospect of negotiating with any Muslim body like Hamas , iran or Hezbollah. is like herding cats. They just do not have the concepts of honesty and honour. They are just dishonest brokers from the start. as there only measure of activity is the furtherance of Islam and their own survival. What Trump needs to do is concentrating on the IRG targets until there is not one surviving.
Jeffrey L. Miller says
Negotiate with the Muslims through the end of a gun barrel. That’s the language they speak, that’s language they will understand.
Walter Sieruk says
The very idea is absurd of even attempting to have genuine reasoned based talks with those in power in that Islamic regime Iran is base is based on a false premise. .which is that those despots s of that hostile tyranny will respond to reason. Those tyrants only have a blind unquestioning faith in Islam along the coming of their future “hero “the Twelfth Imam.”