Tim Winter, an Englishman who converted to Islam in 1979, says he knows Islam better than the Taliban and suggests that they themselves admit this: “The word Taliban means students.” He asserts that “there was no scriptural mandate in Islam for face coverings and the Taliban would struggle to find anything in Islamic scripture that backed their interpretation of hijab rules.”
Yet Molvi Mohammad Sadiq Akif, the spokesman for the Taliban’s Ministry of Vice and Virtue, says: “People wanted to implement Sharia (Islamic law) here. Now we’re carrying out the implementation of Sharia.” He clearly sees the covering of women’s faces as part of this implementation. Is he daring to suggest that he knows more about Islam than Tim Winter? And who is right?
It is noteworthy that at Sunnah.com, a repository of hadith texts, we read this:
Umm ‘Atiyya reported:
The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) commanded us to bring out on’Id-ul-Fitr and ‘Id-ul-Adha young women, menstruating women and screened away ladies, menstruating women kept back from prayer, but participated in goodness and supplication of the Muslims. I said: Messenger of Allah, one of us does not have an outer garment (to cover her face and body). He said: Let her sister cover her with her outer garment. (Sahih Muslim 890c)
The words “to cover her face and body” are not in the original Arabic; the translator added them. But clearly, unless Sunnah.com is hiring Taliban members to translate for them, the Taliban are not singular among Muslims in thinking that women’s faces should be covered.
Another hadith says:
Narrated `Aishah:
May Allah bestow His Mercy on the early emigrant women. When Allah revealed: “… and to draw their veils all over their Juyubihinna (i.e., their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)…” (V.24:31) they tore their Murat (woolen dresses or waist-binding clothes or aprons etc.) and covered their heads and faces with those torn Muruts. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 1, book 65, no. 4578)
Here again, the words “i.e., their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms” are not in the Arabic, but the translator is confident enough that this is the import of what is being said in Arabic that he adds them as an explanatory parenthetical note. The phrase “and covered their heads and faces” in Arabic is “and covered themselves.” But once again the translator, who is likely not a member of the Taliban, seems to think that this passages gives warrant for the idea that women should cover their faces.
It’s the same story with this hadith:
It was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said; “A man stood up and said:
‘O Messenger of Allah! What garments do you command us to wear in Ihran?’ The Messenger of Allah said: ‘Do not wear shirts or pants, or ‘Imamahs, or burnouses, or Khuffs except if someone does not have sandals, in which case let him wear Khuffs that come below the ankles. And do not wear any garment that has been touched by (dyed with) saffron or Wars. And women should not cover their faces when in Ihram, or wear gloves.” (Sunan an-Nasai, vol. 3, book 24, no. 2673)
The Arabic doesn’t say “should not cover their faces,” it says “should not wear veils.” The translator obviously believes that this means that women should cover their faces except when in Ihram, that is, when in a state of consecration for the hajj.
Obviously this is a matter of dispute among Muslims. Yet Tim Winter, a.k.a. Abdal Hakim Murad, doesn’t bother to inform AP that many Muslims, not just the Taliban, believe that Allah wants Muslim women to cover their faces. Instead, he tries to give the impression that the Taliban are ignorant of the very law they’re trying to implement. What game is Winter playing? Surely he isn’t trying to foster ignorance and complacency about Islam among non-Muslim Westerners, is he?
“Taliban official says women lose value if their faces are visible to men in public,” Associated Press, August 18, 2023:
KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — Women lose value if men can see their uncovered faces in public, a spokesman for a key ministry of Afghanistan’s Taliban government said Thursday, adding that religious scholars in the country agree that a woman must keep her face covered when outside the home.
The Taliban, who took over the country in August of 2021, have cited the failure of women to observe the proper way to wear the hijab, or Islamic headscarf, as a reason for barring them from most public spaces, including parks, jobs and university.
Molvi Mohammad Sadiq Akif, the spokesman for the Taliban’s Ministry of Vice and Virtue, said in an interview Thursday with The Associated Press that if women’s faces are visible in public there is a possibility of fitna, or falling into sin.
“It is very bad to see women (without the hijab) in some areas (big cities), and our scholars also agree that women’s faces should be hidden,” Akif said. “It’s not that her face will be harmed or damaged. A woman has her own value and that value decreases by men looking at her. Allah gives respect to females in hijab and there is value in this.”
Tim Winter, who is the Shaykh Zayed Lecturer in Islamic Studies at the Faculty of Divinity at Cambridge University, said there was no scriptural mandate in Islam for face coverings and the Taliban would struggle to find anything in Islamic scripture that backed their interpretation of hijab rules.
“Their name implies they are not senior religious experts,” he told AP. “The word Taliban means students. “
He said the Taliban operate on the basis of textbooks used in village madrassas, religious schools, and that Muslim scholars who have been to Afghanistan during both periods of Taliban rule have been underwhelmed by their level of religious knowledge. “They have just been so isolated from the wider Muslim community.”…
Akif said the ministry faced no obstacles in its work and that people supported its measures.
“People wanted to implement Sharia (Islamic law) here. Now we’re carrying out the implementation of Sharia.” All the decrees are Islamic rulings and the Taliban have added nothing to them, he said. “The orders of Sharia were issued 1,400 years ago and they are still there.”…
The Taliban government also says it has destroyed the “evils” of drinking alcohol and bacha bazi, a practice in which wealthy or powerful men exploit boys for entertainment, especially dancing and sexual activities….
FYI says
“misunderstanding their religion”
Any chance the islamic ‘scholars’ can explain some of allah’s ‘misunderstandings”
1]WHY women have to wear that hijab at all when in the same koran allah clearly misunderstands human reproductive Biology koran 86:6-7
2}WHY does allah completely misunderstand Christian Theology{ koran 5:116} thus revealing he is NOT omniscient?
3} Explain why non muslims are ‘the WORST of created beings’ and do you agree YES/NO{difficult one to answer eh?}You cannot say no if you follow allah as you are a supremacist!
4}Explain how,despite claiming he gave the Torah to moses{koran 2;87}his teachings VIOLATE the Law thus defeating the purpose of the Law.In fact how did allah MISS the entire law system IN the Torah?
Any chance you can figure that out?
5]Regarding the Law of Moses:how come allah MISSED the 2 Chief Commandments{the ‘whole of the law’}and its meaning{‘the Golden Rule’}?I thought allah claims he gave that Torah to Moses,.
6}if allah does not permit final penitence koran 4:18 how can muslims be sure of allah’s mercy?
{They can’t}A devout muslim can still end up in allah’s hell if he is friends to an infidel.odd
7} An infidel is the ”WORST of created beings’.But a muslim who is friends with an infidel is ALSO an infidel{koran 5:51) and so is too ‘the WORST of created beings’
Explain the illogicality of that.Good luck.
8}The scientific,theological and logical errors in the koran clearly show allah is NOT all-knowing and cannot be the Creator.why are islamic ‘scholars’ unable to figure it?You don’t want it figured out!Now i am not claiming to be a scholar but even a child could get it.You understand why we laugh at islamic ‘scholars’?
For answers don’t forget to follow allah’s advice in koran 10:94 …and consult the Bible people.
Shawn says
These people.are lunatics.Fools!! Let these people live how they want where they are, stop,just stop bringing them here as their Mosques are a disgrace to this once great country.How are we allowing our traitorous so called leaders the freedom to import our enemies?
FYI says
For Infidel people,’the WORST of created beings’ who read the koran;
1]It is not just what is written in the koran:it is what is MISSING from the koran given allah’s insistence he gave the Torah to Moses{koran 2:87}
2]The classification of non -muslims as ‘the WORST of created beings’ koran 98:6 VIOLATES the Law of Moses that people are made in the spiritual image of God and means the Golden Rule and 2nd Chief commandment cannot be satisfied:and slavery is permissable in islam
The 1st Chief Commandment cannot be satisfied either as allah permits murder,stealing etc which VIOLATES the Exodus 20 Laws
So the 2 Chief Commandments{‘the whole of the Law’} and the Golden Rule{‘the Meaning of the law’
cannot -do not exist in islam;so the Entire law of Moses is violated by the koran.
3}The koran is THE most boring illogical book ever written:It does not survive critical analysis.No point arguing with islamic ‘scholars’ but infidels should consult it critically.Muslims who do that will likely become ex-muslims.
Mike says
there is no misunderstanding of the religion. the religion rules thru fear and must have control.
QuestioningTaliban says
The word Taliban means two students. Tulab would be for a greater number. Always confused the hell out of me. Did they just accidentally use incorrect grammar or is it in reference to two founders. I haven’t been able to figure it out.
gravenimage says
My understanding is that “Taliban” is Pashto for students in the plural, not just the number two.
Transmaster says
In terms of brilliance Talk to army trainers who were in Afghanistan. I was talking to a weapons instructor. He told me the Afganies he tried to train where so stupid that sometime would shoot themselves looking down the barrel of their AK’s. Worse they would start to shoot each other on the range. They would run down to where the targets were while others were still shooting. When this started to happen the instructors would leave the range. only returning to see how many wounded and dead there was prior to calling in Afgan ambulances.
gravenimage says
Good grief. Given what else I have heard this does not surprise, though. A combination of extreme ignorance and putting almost no value on life.
Westerners, no matter how ignorant, would A) listen to the instructor, and B) such an accident would only have to happen once for the whole group to stop and learn from the potentially lethal mistake.
Transmaster says
It is also blasphemy to translate the Quran into any other language it has to be in Arabic.
gravenimage says
Yep. Even though most Muslims read the Qur’an in a language other than Arabic, and only a few scholars read it in ancient classical Arabic.
Mateen says
It is not blasphemy to translate the Qur’an into other languages. Otherwise the government of Saudi Arabia would be guilty of blasphemy millions of times over. Muslins regard translations as « interpretations of the « real Qur’an » rather than the Qur’an itself. Translations are not to be used in prayers or in worship since they are not the literal words of Allah — only the Arabic words are the true words sent down fron heaven. Or so goes the Muslim logic.
somehistory says
I read this on the AP some days ago and wondered which group would say differently.
Imagine how the taliban was informed that the “people wanted” their evil brand of pretend “law.” The taliban made the “offer” of implementing it, and it was an offer the people couldn’t refuse.
I would be fine with some of the infamous mozlums in the U.S. following this cover-the -face rule. In fact, all of those who are frequently photographed with some vile thing to say, should cover their faces. i.elmi and r. tlaib. And no reason to stop with the two infamous mozlums…go with the infamous non-moslum…h. clinton, n, pelosi, aoc, c. bush, a. pressley, jayapal,, kjp …all of the lying ugly inside and out.
tim gallagher says
When there are so many reasonably pleasant religions in the world I will never understand how anyone can choose to join stinking, barbaric, primitive, backward islam, so this man in this report is a complete fuckwit for actually freely choosing to join islam. I could not give a damn what the imbecile says on any subject under the Sun since he is either moronically stupid enough or evil enough to choose to join satanically evil islam. I get how people might be forced to join islam, but to freely choose to join the vile religious ideology is inexcusable and shows a lack of basic morality, since islam condones so many evil practices.
gravenimage says
+1
libertyORdeath says
The same way these poor kids are being tricked into thinking they’re transvestites or that free speech is dangerous. Most converts seem to have a desire to subjugate women (see Andrew Tare), but most muslims are born into it and indoctrinated from birth. They have no worldview that sees islam for what it is.
This is why there should be no immigration (muslim or otherwise) without assimilation and our schools must not be centers of indoctrination – whether it’s religious or political.
I just can’t comprehend these leftists and their insistence that third-world migrants and muslims are a lesser evil than patriotic Americans or Westerners. It just makes it more clear that indoctrination at an early age is crucial to producing cult-like behaviors.
tim gallagher says
I agree with what you say, libertyORdeath. And i definitely agree that letting Muslims, with their totally incompatible views on all issues, into western countries is a disaster. Keep islam out. It brings nothing but trouble and is an obvious threat to all our western values. Thanks for the +1, gravenimage.
Hoi Polloi says
Talking truth about islam to one of these gets only one response in my experience: “You obviously hate islam/muslims.” The illogic and the willingness to lie is strong.
It seems to me, that apart from the idea that they are building a power structure, they are people who want to molest children and/or subjugate women and/or are natural taqiyah practitioners.
Hoi Polloi says
Further, the bit about menstruating women. Islam clearly depends on women to victimize and oppress women. Otherwise, who would even know, where the woman is unmarried? Surely men aren’t crawling around underneath, inspecting? Or are they? Always something, at best, super creepy with these savages.
somehistory says
Did you see where the “dr.” levine who dresses like a woman…which he is not…praised a clinic in Alaska which has the teaching that no one should be called “mother”…esp to children, evidently…but “egg producers,” “carriers,” “birth parent” and “gestational parent,” and says this is “inspiring.”
Can you just hear the next generation of kids, “gestational parent,’ may I have a cookie”? ‘I love you “egg producer”.’
He and others like him, should try a stint under the taliban and see just how well they fare. Twisted, evil, both kinds…the taliban and the likes of levine.
Hoi Polloi says
Yes, and I saw that dude also essentially demand unceasing celebration of his slice of life.
One might think a doctor had some real concerns and ideas. Especially one who admits he couldn’t have had children under the policies he’s pushing.
Further, I continue to note just how much leftist policy is anti-woman.
James Lincoln says
somehistory,
Just for the record, Admiral Rachel Levine, USPHS is a total whack job.
Total.
But you knew that already…
somehistory says
the liar…and he is a liar, as he knows that he is male, always has been and always will be…is demanding that parents stand up at school board meetings and say they want the whole trans enchilada. Demanding that parents…who have the responsibility and the right…who raise the children to whom they are the parents, say they want the schools to encourage the mutilating…of mind and body…for their children by school personnel.
levin is no “doctor.” he’s a lying ghoul
somehistory says
James, yes he is a total whack job. But, I have to wonder if he has been “whacked” as he is demanding for the kids. The surgical “whack.”
James Lincoln says
somehistory,
Dr. Levine is certainly whacked in the head, not sure about his genitalia…
gravenimage says
Taliban say women’s faces must be covered, but UK Muslim convert prof says they’re misunderstanding the religion
…………………………………….
Yes, I just heard about this, but have expected it. The Taliban claims that it is the fault of women that they can’t be allowed to go to school or work, but this is of course bs. Women getting an education or having a career is also un-Islamic.
More:
“It is very bad to see women (without the hijab) in some areas (big cities), and our scholars also agree that women’s faces should be hidden,” Akif said. “It’s not that her face will be harmed or damaged. A woman has her own value and that value decreases by men looking at her. Allah gives respect to females in hijab and there is value in this.”
…………………………………….
Note how pious Muslims think–it has nothing to do with the character or actions of a woman herself that sets her worth–just what men do to them. Medieval thinking…
tim gallagher says
islam’s view of women is the knuckle drggers from 7th century Arabia’s view of women, gravenimage. How pathetic for Muslims not to have evolved and become enlightened . To be still seeing the old 7th century lifestyle as their ideal is beyond stupid, but also such a danger to civilised people everywhere. Muslims need to be shut away in their primitive islamic countries where they can’t try to drag mankind back to their backward knuckle dragging nonsense.
Hoi Polloi says
Funny how acknowledging that a mere glance from a man contains such highly potent evil never works its way through their brains to the obvious conclusion that such a man is evil.
somehistory says
That fact, HP, shows that these are psychopaths. A psychopath never takes any responsibility for his actions. He will take credit for good things with which he had nothing to do, but he will refuse responsibility for anything that can be said to be an error.
tim gallagher says
Yes, Muslims have a moral radar that is completely out of whack, Hoi Polloi. THey think that behaviour that is completely immoral to any civilised human beings is quite OK, whether it be their pedophilia with the child brides, the honour killings, the terrorist attacks on non-Muslims for not being Muslims, and so on. As you say, somehistory, many Muslims surely have the twisted mentality of psychopaths.
Hoi Polloi says
+1
libertyORdeath says
Typical Western leftist who thinks they know EVERYTHING just a bit more than anyone else could possibly comprehend. It’s the same way you end up with PhDs saying something as retarded as “defunding police will lower crime” or “gender is a spectrum.” They literally think they’ve tapped into some occult knowledge or something that allows them to redefine reality as they see fit.
I’d say when people tell you something about themselves (i.e. we believe women are second-class citizens), you should BELIEVE them instead of trying to warp their beliefs to fit your worldview.
We’re all gonna have a rude awakening when the leftists realize what their new muslim neighbors really think about them. Not to mention all the Africans and Hispanics they keep inviting in to spite the traditional citizens.
tim gallagher says
I agree about the idiocy of some the nonsense the left wingers come up with, libertyORdeath. The points you raise about defunding police and gnder are spot on. They are so out of touch with reality in their views.
Jlyn says
Makes no difference if it’s in the scriptures. These people make it up as they go along to fit their narrative.
FYI says
Why we have to laugh at islamic ‘scholars’
Because allah says to check with the Bible people{koran 10:94and if any muslim does that they would see the koran is FALSE but then the ‘scholars’ would lose their status as ‘scholars’.muslims are told the Bible was corrupted:FALSE.That’s to stop them figuring it out.
Surely ANY competent scholar of islam should check with the original sources to see is that torah allah says he gave Moses{koran 2:87,koran 45:16 ‘..the scripture and the command..’]conforms to the original Torah;it doesn’t.
Surely some islamic ‘scholar’ would have asked the Christians if MARY one of the 3 parts of the Trinity.
Utter nonsense from allah.No!
Where does ‘allah who knowns all things’ get Mary from anyway and i thought he said he knows all things so how come he does not UNDERSTAND the Theology of Christians.
Whatever you think about the Trinity it is NOT 3 gods and has NOTHING to do with Mary.
allah not only fails to understand Theology but he also fails to understand that the purpose of the Law of Moses is to OBEY the laws,not break them.And since he MISSED the 2 chief commandments which constitute the whole of the Law{according to Jesus Christ}and which cannot be satisfied by the koran -AND the Golden Rule{the meaning of the Law}allah has NO UNDERSTANDING of the Law of Moses which is simply hilarious.
Did no islamic ‘scholar’ bother to check the sources by following allah’s advice?
CENTURIES of ‘scholarship’.Seriously?CENTURIES
allah has not a clue about the Torah or Theology:he is just pretending to know.And whoever wrote that plagiarized book the koran,stole from the Bible and cunningly inserted that jizya tax money scam for good measure.
allah is NOT omniscient:he does not UNDERSTAND things.Not a clue!
The Whole of the Law of Moses{TORAH} Matthew 23 v 40
The Meaning of the Law Matthew 7 v 12 Golden Rule
The purpose of the Law to OBEY it ,not violate it as allah permits.
I am not a scholar:Bible scholars should look critically at the koran in relation to allah’s ridiculous claims.
I hope muslims would think for themselves{with allah’s unwitting permission koran 10;94-but STAY AWAY from islamic ‘scholars’ and dawa folk:Stop ‘scholars’ interpreting things for you.Interpret things yourself}
Of course if muslims analyze the koran critically{haram!}they wlll likely leave islam.Good if they do as they have escaped the worst cult in the world.
islam doesn’t even allow for the Golden Rule and allah has not a clue about anything.
And so i will always laugh at islamic ‘scholars’…..