It would have been interesting to see if Ahmed Al-Ghamdi had any comeback to Abd Al-Rahman Abd Al-Karim’s quotes from Muhammad and Abu Bakr. But really, what could he say?
The death penalty for apostasy is part of Islamic law. It’s based on the Qur’an: “They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.” (Qur’an 4:89)
A hadith depicts Muhammad saying: “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him” (Bukhari 9.84.57). The death penalty for apostasy is part of Islamic law according to all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence.
This is still the position of all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, both Sunni and Shi’ite. The late Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, who was once the most renowned and prominent Muslim cleric in the world, stated: “The Muslim jurists are unanimous that apostates must be punished, yet they differ as to determining the kind of punishment to be inflicted upon them. The majority of them, including the four main schools of jurisprudence (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi’i, and Hanbali) as well as the other four schools of jurisprudence (the four Shiite schools of Az-Zaidiyyah, Al-Ithna-‘ashriyyah, Al-Ja’fariyyah, and Az-Zaheriyyah) agree that apostates must be executed.”
Qaradawi also once famously said: “If they had gotten rid of the apostasy punishment, Islam wouldn’t exist today.”
“Saudi Islamic Scholar Ahmad Al-Ghamdi In TV Debate: Islam Does Not Sanction The Killing Of Apostates; Saudi Islamic Scholar Abd Al-Rahman Abd Al-Karim: Consensus Is That Punishment Is Death,” MEMRI, March 2, 2023:
On March 2, 2023, Rotana Khalijiya TV (Saudi Arabia) aired a show in which Saudi Islamic scholars discussed the Islamic punishment for apostasy. Saudi Islamic scholar Ahmed Al-Ghamdi, formerly the head of the Mecca chapter of the Authority for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, said that people are free to decide whether they adhere to Islam or become apostates, and he argued that there is no verse in the Quran explicitly stating that the punishment for apostasy is death. Abd Al-Rahman Abd Al-Karim from the Saudi Fiqh Association rebutted that the Quran prescribes the death penalty for apostates, and that there is a consensus among Islamic jurisprudents on the subject.
Ahmed Al-Ghamdi: “People who do not adhere to the Islamic faith are free to do so. They must not be coerced. The same is true for people who converted to Islam and then became apostates. There are unambiguous verses in the Quran regarding their freedom to do so. Allah said [in the Quran:] ‘There is no coercion in religion.’ This is an unambiguous verse, and it applies to an infidel before his conversion to Islam, as well as to people who converted and then became apostates. They are free to do so, as Allah made it clear in the verse ‘There is no coercion in religion.’
[…]
“There isn’t an explicit verse in the Quran saying that an apostate should be killed as a punishment for his apostacy.”
[…]
Abd Al-Rahman Abd Al-Karim: “There has been consensus among Islamic jurisprudents about the punishment for apostasy. First of all, according to a hadith, the Prophet Muhammad said: ‘He who changes his religion — kill him.’ In addition, when some people renounced Islam after the death of the Prophet Muhammad, [Caliph] Abu Bakr said: ‘By Allah, I will kill those who renounced Allah’s religion!’ And indeed, he applied the [death] punishment in that case.
[…]
“This is beyond discussion. These are the rules and punishment in the shari’a. There are seven religious punishments mentioned in the Quran, and one is allowed to doubt these religious punishments.”
Interviewer: “What are they?”
Abd Al-Rahman Abd Al-Karim: “The punishments for highway robbery, fornication, homosexuality, drinking alcohol, apostacy, murder, and theft. The punishment for these seven crimes are mentioned in the Quran.”
Wellington says
Would that most every adult non-Muslim in the West knew this about Islam and not accompanied, if known, by idiotic moral equivalency “arguments” about Christianity, whose theological blueprint does not endorse this rot.
“Theological blueprints,” as with all ideological blueprints, are very important because even the most decent of such blueprints, i.e., high theory, can be distorted terribly by followers at times, just as the worst of such blueprints, whether religions or secular, can produce followers who, in spite of the malevolent blueprint they adhere to, might on occasion act correctly or even nobly.
Conclusion: The ideology matters first and foremost. It should be taken from here in all cases. No exceptions. None.
somehistory says
The one says there is a “consensus”….but evidently there is not one, because these two disagreed.
It’s very important then for the *rank and file* mozlum to be told that it’s okay to leave the death cult and they won’t be killed.
However, there are many *rank and file* mozlums who agree with the so-called “consensus” that they should murder anyone they know, be it mother, sister, son, daughter, neighbor, etc. who give themselves away…a.k.a. let it be known they have left, or just want to.
I met a young man who had left islam and married a Christian. His family was after him to murder him for leaving, and he spent his days in hiding, moving from place to place to escape the “punishment.”
I met a young girl who told me her father would kill her if he caught her with a Bible.
Yes, the rank and file need to be educated about the murder of others who don’t like being mozlum; that these deserve to go on living and making their own choices.
pfwag says
Islam is a Borg sex cult.
peter11 says
That is a very nice way to put it! Well done!
Walter Sieruk says
This shows that there exist no rational valid logical reasons got a person to stay within “The House of Islam.” Therefore, the fear of being murdered keep people from leaving that religion.
This alone is strong evidence that the house of Islam is built on nothing but a foundation of sand.
kq6kq6kq6 says
“Sand” is Biblically correct. But “Fear” is more accurate. Without the fear of being killed, Islam would disappear.
pfwag says
Islam is a Borg sex cult.
Eur says
So peaceful
Walter Sieruk says
According to Sharia if a Muslim leaves , he or she must be killed.
In contrast, according to the Bible based, on the its New Testament, If a Christian forsakes Jesus and likewise turns away from Him. That person should not be killed but prayed for, or it the very worst shunned.
The difference between Christianity and Islam is outstanding and vast.
Jesus did teach that “by their fruits you will recognize them.” Mathew 7:20. [N.I.V.]
Mark Spahn says
Dear Imam: I am a Muslim and have heard that our beloved Prophet said, ‘He who changes his religion — kill him.’ As it happens, a friend of mine, who used to be a Scientologist, gave up that religion and became a Seventh-Day Adventist. As a loyal Muslim, must I kill this apostate? (Asking for friend, namely, for my ex-Scientologist 7DA friend.)
pfwag says
Yes, according to Muhammad but only if he was a Muslim first. Hopefully, someday you’ll figure out that your prophet was a lying, cheating, murdering pedophile and find the true GOD, Yeshua.
European pagan says
The Quran says that no compulsion in religion. Why don’t they refuse this hadith as non authentic? More ex muslims – worse statistics?
pfwag says
The Koran is not in chronological order and the doctrine of ‘abrogation’ (naskh) allows Allah to change his mind, . Chronologically, there are two distinct phases in the Quran: The first was the “let’s all get along” kumbaya phase when Mohammad was in Mecca. This is the “there is no compulsion in religion” Islam. Then Muhammad fled to Medina and Allah did a lot of abrogating. This is when Allah changed his mind and created the “convert or we’ll chop of your heads” Islam..
..
࿗Infidel࿘ says
Maybe the Saudi authorities can do a Khashoggi on him? Just to convince people in the West that they haven’t abandoned their ‘reforms’
OLD GUY says
Saudi Islamic scholar? I wonder what university endowed with Saudi oil money he graduated from? OR NOT.
I wonder why murdering of a person who falls away from the ISLAMIC religion seems to always be the way that the ISLAMIC LEADERS deal with failure. Maybe doing away with the leaders of islam for failing to make islam a truly loving and peaceful religion would be appropriate.
Or is islam basically just a CULT?
ATH says
Since religions have been ands are interpreted and reinterpreted and changed over the years, we need to have laws that make it clear that the “interpreters” who preach or do anything that is in contradiction with our existing laws will be prosecute and promoting murder should be treated as murder itself.