The only possible type “reform of Islam” is what some people would call a “reformed Islam” would be a mild watered -down not that Qu ran based ‘Islam” for it has been striped of bloody violence and killing that is instructed in hard core , non-watered -down genuine real Qu ‘ran based Islam,2:191. 4:89. 5:33..
This violent Islam ,47:4 which has the entire Qu ‘ran as its complete foundation for all the beliefs , ideas values thoughts and behavior of millions of devout Muslim around the earth.
As for that mild watered down non-violent “Islam” its been already been strongly denounced by the scholarly imams of both Sunni and Shiite Islam.
In addition ,lets’s not be naive and accept the Western concept of a “reformation of Islam” as having this religion becoming non-violent religion but be informed and knowledgeable about the Muslim worldview of having a” Reformation Islam” which is getting back totally to all of the doctrines of the Qu ‘ran which include violence and killing for the cause of Islam.9:5. 112,112.123.
somehistorysays
No, there is no “reform.” islam is evil, through and through, straight from satan.
Related to the topic of “reform,’ one could use the slave trade the fake prophet promoted and in which he is written to have engaged for profit. To this day, mozlums still keep, abuse and sell slaves for profit.
“Hindu slavery under Islamic dominion in India: A topic not discussed in history”
“…slavery was not introduced in India by the foreign Muslim invaders and had existed in India even in the BCE era, historically the system was institutionalized and turned into a hugely profitable business during Muslim rule, which focused on the expansion of slavery for both commercial and political purposes.
….Prior to this, slavery in ancient India was humanist in nature and slaves were not seen as commodities for making profit through sale…it was Islam that started the practice of slave trade, taking it to gargantuan proportions, making it run for profit like any other commercial activity. Prophet Muhammad had continued with the prevailing pagan Arab practice of keeping slaves;” https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hindu-slavery-under-islamic-dominion-in-india-a-topic-not-discussed-in-history/ar-
Devasursays
Actually before Islam their was no slavery in India. It is the western scholars who purposely mistranslate servant to slave to justify islamic and colonial slavery.
If slavery did exist before Islam rule in India, Hindu kings wouldn’t have freed slaves from islamic rulers and colonial rulers.
Ade Fegansays
Hah .. Islam has already been reformed to a large degree
The 5 pillars don’t appear in the quran
and the story about Mo being nice to the Jewish litter-bug lady is complete fiction too
I have always maintained that moderates are sometimes unwittingly and sometimes knowingly
a smoke screen for the more authentic islam
You can bend a thing out of shape ..
but sooner or later it will spring back and we will once again see it’s true form
measays
muhammadanism : the faux religion supposedly conceived by [an illiterate, alcoholic, whoring, pedophilic] : a deviant man who was exploited by literate henchmen – a man who became the witless sock puppet of a band of power hungry looters who plagiarized the Animist – Hebrew – Christian religions with a generous helping of the code hammurabi overlaying the basic feudal political order.
Nothing can reform such a totally destitute feudal political order [see marxism]; muhammadanism achieves durable status by cleverly wrapping and marketing itself in : as if a holy : religious mantel which is then specifically applied to suck in and create true believers comfortable with the already known feudal style governance…
this process of syncretic overlaying of current governments with feudal orders posing as if new : by renaming the offices and officers, as employed by Lenin while Trotsky was off fighting and winning the Russian civil war.
Note : indoctrinated marxist Toadies applied feudalist syncretism has been : is being used to NOW supplant the provisions and definitions intrinsic to the American Constitution with the obsolete : long defunct soviet constitution.
As usual, there is no American who will do anything about enforcing the Supremacy of American to secure Natural Right.
Islam cannot be reformed. As Jesus said, a tree that bears bad fruits or no fruits at all must be rooted out and be thrown into the fire.
The major tenet of Islam is that those who fight, kill or die for Allah will go to Paradise and receive 72 virgins. How can you “reform” that?
࿗Infidel࿘says
Good discussion
On the discussion about MbS and the reforms in Saudi Arabia, the reason I gloss over MbS being repressive is that that is the only way he can tone down the stranglehold that islam has over that country. It’s either that or getting assassinated by Muslim Brotherhood aligned forces. While it is possible that he could be just a chip of the old block, the chances are more likely that he knows that he has to break the stranglehold of islam if he wants his own projects to succeed, but for that to happen, he has to be repressive
The thing about the oil economy there being replaced: they saw in 2017 that the biggest threat to them was not everybody all going for green energy, but that if the US came online, it could reduce energy prices to a minimum and bankrupt both Riyadh and Moscow. That was the reason for projects like Neom and others like it. They may not quite fear that now, but they do know that the US is capable of going online again, and if it does, then it could be like 2019 again, if not 2020, when the price of oil was negative due to the global lockdown and the price wars b/w Riyadh and Moscow.
The Jaipur Dialogue guys, who’re otherwise right on a lot of things, are totally clueless when it comes to energy production. They are gleeful about Lithium and other rare earths found in various places, but simple fact remains that magic minerals don’t and won’t have anywhere near the sort of energy that one gets from quasi perpetual motion systems, such as hydro-electric dams. oil or coal powered plants or nuclear plants. It’s a simple physics case of kinetic energy from various sources being converted into electrical energy, as opposed to the limited number of chemical reactions in any battery
Finally, on the Emirates, I don’t put them in the same book as Saudi Arabia, since they are deftly playing as many sides as they can. They are a major hub of Iranian investments, even while they entertain the Israelis. Despite the Abraham Accords, they recently voted against Israel on its 75th anniversary in the UN General Assembly on a Naqba resolution, despite signing the Abraham Accords. The examples RS cited were a tad old, but he’s right: that country does still use shariah law to crack down on people, even while it pretends to the West that it’s absolutely moderate. Vibhuti Jha is very simplistic for falling for this
MMsays
It will not be reformed – it can only be conquered.
Too many people and too many groups and nations benefit from a militant, power-hungry Islam, and too many in the West (and other countries) are eithe weak, spineless, or both.
Aumsays
Robert summarised it perfectly ‘Allah & Muhammad has given the perfect religion and the holy book Quran’.
No deviation.
Walter Sieruksays
This video discussion started off with this question “Is there any possibly for reform in Islam ?
The answer to that question is the idea and hope to attempt have a “reformation of Islam” trying to do so is a waste of time and effort. This is because “reforming Islam” is not actually possible, it’s an action of futility. For It should be noted that Islam can’t be changed from violent and deadly to non –violent and peaceful because the very core essence of Islam is that of violence and killing. As found in the Quran 9:121, 5:33, 9:5, 111, 47:4. The very best that may be realistically hoped for would be a watered-down type of Islam is mild and non-violent.
This is in contrast to hard core Quran based Islam which is the violent and murderous Islam practice Muslim jihad terror organizations, as ISIS ,Al Qaeda , Hezbollah ,Hamas and so forth .
To put this in another way, the Bible informs its reader “What is crooked cannot be made straight, and what is lacking cannot be numbered.” Ecclesiastes 1 :15. [N.K.J.V.] Therefore this verse may be understood when applying it to the idea of folly of “reforming Islam” As in, “What is crooked cannot be made straight in. “The violent nature can’t be straightened to be made non-violent” and “what is lacking cannot be numbered” may be understood as “Such a violent and hate-filled religion is lacking in love and compassion and thus can’t be numbered or counted as a truly peaceful religion.”
Mark Spahnsays
“the very core essence of Islam is that of violence and killing. As found in the Quran 9:121, 5:33, 9:5, 111, 47:4.”
https://quran.com/9/121 says, “And whenever they [who?] make a donation, small or large, or cross a valley ˹in Allah’s cause˺—it is written to their credit, so that Allah may grant them the best reward for what they used to do.”
How is this violent?
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Walter Sieruk says
The only possible type “reform of Islam” is what some people would call a “reformed Islam” would be a mild watered -down not that Qu ran based ‘Islam” for it has been striped of bloody violence and killing that is instructed in hard core , non-watered -down genuine real Qu ‘ran based Islam,2:191. 4:89. 5:33..
This violent Islam ,47:4 which has the entire Qu ‘ran as its complete foundation for all the beliefs , ideas values thoughts and behavior of millions of devout Muslim around the earth.
As for that mild watered down non-violent “Islam” its been already been strongly denounced by the scholarly imams of both Sunni and Shiite Islam.
In addition ,lets’s not be naive and accept the Western concept of a “reformation of Islam” as having this religion becoming non-violent religion but be informed and knowledgeable about the Muslim worldview of having a” Reformation Islam” which is getting back totally to all of the doctrines of the Qu ‘ran which include violence and killing for the cause of Islam.9:5. 112,112.123.
somehistory says
No, there is no “reform.” islam is evil, through and through, straight from satan.
Related to the topic of “reform,’ one could use the slave trade the fake prophet promoted and in which he is written to have engaged for profit. To this day, mozlums still keep, abuse and sell slaves for profit.
“Hindu slavery under Islamic dominion in India: A topic not discussed in history”
“…slavery was not introduced in India by the foreign Muslim invaders and had existed in India even in the BCE era, historically the system was institutionalized and turned into a hugely profitable business during Muslim rule, which focused on the expansion of slavery for both commercial and political purposes.
….Prior to this, slavery in ancient India was humanist in nature and slaves were not seen as commodities for making profit through sale…it was Islam that started the practice of slave trade, taking it to gargantuan proportions, making it run for profit like any other commercial activity. Prophet Muhammad had continued with the prevailing pagan Arab practice of keeping slaves;”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hindu-slavery-under-islamic-dominion-in-india-a-topic-not-discussed-in-history/ar-
Devasur says
Actually before Islam their was no slavery in India. It is the western scholars who purposely mistranslate servant to slave to justify islamic and colonial slavery.
If slavery did exist before Islam rule in India, Hindu kings wouldn’t have freed slaves from islamic rulers and colonial rulers.
Ade Fegan says
Hah .. Islam has already been reformed to a large degree
The 5 pillars don’t appear in the quran
and the story about Mo being nice to the Jewish litter-bug lady is complete fiction too
I have always maintained that moderates are sometimes unwittingly and sometimes knowingly
a smoke screen for the more authentic islam
You can bend a thing out of shape ..
but sooner or later it will spring back and we will once again see it’s true form
mea says
muhammadanism : the faux religion supposedly conceived by [an illiterate, alcoholic, whoring, pedophilic] : a deviant man who was exploited by literate henchmen – a man who became the witless sock puppet of a band of power hungry looters who plagiarized the Animist – Hebrew – Christian religions with a generous helping of the code hammurabi overlaying the basic feudal political order.
Nothing can reform such a totally destitute feudal political order [see marxism]; muhammadanism achieves durable status by cleverly wrapping and marketing itself in : as if a holy : religious mantel which is then specifically applied to suck in and create true believers comfortable with the already known feudal style governance…
this process of syncretic overlaying of current governments with feudal orders posing as if new : by renaming the offices and officers, as employed by Lenin while Trotsky was off fighting and winning the Russian civil war.
Note : indoctrinated marxist Toadies applied feudalist syncretism has been : is being used to NOW supplant the provisions and definitions intrinsic to the American Constitution with the obsolete : long defunct soviet constitution.
As usual, there is no American who will do anything about enforcing the Supremacy of American to secure Natural Right.
kq6kq6kq6 says
Islam cannot be reformed. As Jesus said, a tree that bears bad fruits or no fruits at all must be rooted out and be thrown into the fire.
The major tenet of Islam is that those who fight, kill or die for Allah will go to Paradise and receive 72 virgins. How can you “reform” that?
࿗Infidel࿘ says
Good discussion
On the discussion about MbS and the reforms in Saudi Arabia, the reason I gloss over MbS being repressive is that that is the only way he can tone down the stranglehold that islam has over that country. It’s either that or getting assassinated by Muslim Brotherhood aligned forces. While it is possible that he could be just a chip of the old block, the chances are more likely that he knows that he has to break the stranglehold of islam if he wants his own projects to succeed, but for that to happen, he has to be repressive
The thing about the oil economy there being replaced: they saw in 2017 that the biggest threat to them was not everybody all going for green energy, but that if the US came online, it could reduce energy prices to a minimum and bankrupt both Riyadh and Moscow. That was the reason for projects like Neom and others like it. They may not quite fear that now, but they do know that the US is capable of going online again, and if it does, then it could be like 2019 again, if not 2020, when the price of oil was negative due to the global lockdown and the price wars b/w Riyadh and Moscow.
The Jaipur Dialogue guys, who’re otherwise right on a lot of things, are totally clueless when it comes to energy production. They are gleeful about Lithium and other rare earths found in various places, but simple fact remains that magic minerals don’t and won’t have anywhere near the sort of energy that one gets from quasi perpetual motion systems, such as hydro-electric dams. oil or coal powered plants or nuclear plants. It’s a simple physics case of kinetic energy from various sources being converted into electrical energy, as opposed to the limited number of chemical reactions in any battery
Finally, on the Emirates, I don’t put them in the same book as Saudi Arabia, since they are deftly playing as many sides as they can. They are a major hub of Iranian investments, even while they entertain the Israelis. Despite the Abraham Accords, they recently voted against Israel on its 75th anniversary in the UN General Assembly on a Naqba resolution, despite signing the Abraham Accords. The examples RS cited were a tad old, but he’s right: that country does still use shariah law to crack down on people, even while it pretends to the West that it’s absolutely moderate. Vibhuti Jha is very simplistic for falling for this
MM says
It will not be reformed – it can only be conquered.
Too many people and too many groups and nations benefit from a militant, power-hungry Islam, and too many in the West (and other countries) are eithe weak, spineless, or both.
Aum says
Robert summarised it perfectly ‘Allah & Muhammad has given the perfect religion and the holy book Quran’.
No deviation.
Walter Sieruk says
This video discussion started off with this question “Is there any possibly for reform in Islam ?
The answer to that question is the idea and hope to attempt have a “reformation of Islam” trying to do so is a waste of time and effort. This is because “reforming Islam” is not actually possible, it’s an action of futility. For It should be noted that Islam can’t be changed from violent and deadly to non –violent and peaceful because the very core essence of Islam is that of violence and killing. As found in the Quran 9:121, 5:33, 9:5, 111, 47:4. The very best that may be realistically hoped for would be a watered-down type of Islam is mild and non-violent.
This is in contrast to hard core Quran based Islam which is the violent and murderous Islam practice Muslim jihad terror organizations, as ISIS ,Al Qaeda , Hezbollah ,Hamas and so forth .
To put this in another way, the Bible informs its reader “What is crooked cannot be made straight, and what is lacking cannot be numbered.” Ecclesiastes 1 :15. [N.K.J.V.] Therefore this verse may be understood when applying it to the idea of folly of “reforming Islam” As in, “What is crooked cannot be made straight in. “The violent nature can’t be straightened to be made non-violent” and “what is lacking cannot be numbered” may be understood as “Such a violent and hate-filled religion is lacking in love and compassion and thus can’t be numbered or counted as a truly peaceful religion.”
Mark Spahn says
“the very core essence of Islam is that of violence and killing. As found in the Quran 9:121, 5:33, 9:5, 111, 47:4.”
https://quran.com/9/121 says, “And whenever they [who?] make a donation, small or large, or cross a valley ˹in Allah’s cause˺—it is written to their credit, so that Allah may grant them the best reward for what they used to do.”
How is this violent?