Very relevant fruitful discussion…!
I do debate Muslims on occasion tho apply myslf in the interchange to enlighten them as to the veracity of Christianity via the Scriptures rather then beat them up over their Koranic platform(convoluted @ best) or the life of “Mohammed”(pedo-rapist + criminal)…!
In my knowing the Scriptures well they cannot get around me with typical deployed scams…working to be kindly as Christ would want me to be(gotta bridle my words) my hope is as they move on in their life will ponder Gods powerful Word which I set before them…d
Here are two powerful ministry’s with converted Muslim Nationals risking their lives in Muslim country’s as WE here speak ~
RUN Ministry.com
VOICE OF MARTYR’S.com
billsays
You can say the same thing about the Christian church. Since the councils of Nicea in the 4th century. men have decided what was to be included and what was to be excluded. Which gospels should be in the bible and which doomed to oblivion. In other words censorship. How worship should be carried out etc.. The Bible is the most edited ‘book’ ever written. One only has to look at the Reformation and the many wars and executions which occurred over how people should be allowed to worship ‘god’.
john smithsays
Bill, we here on JW don’t condemn musllims we condemn the ideology of islam. Time after time you are coming out with your condemnation of Christianity, time after time you are showing your support for islamic ideology, Iv’e recognized this for sometime now. You have attacked such people as myself and Gravenimage in the most venomous of manner, why do you do this Bill?
Bill I’ve known for sometime your a muslim and I’m really OK with it, so stop trying to kid us on. Nobody here will hold anything against you for this, and we are so glad that you are corresponding with us. Bill give the bluff up and come and join us, you know in your heart that islam is evil
gravenimagesays
bill, the whole point is that Muslims say that there is no inconsistency in the texts of Islam, especially the Qur’an, and this is simply inaccurate.
Then, Christianity has never taught violence as Islam does.
Hesh Knoshtsays
““Mohammed”(pedo-rapist + criminal)…!”
…
That’s like saying the M.O.S. (“ma[/e]n of sin”) ARE MOSES.
Best to approach with cultured fashion –
“”:Muslim”: Religious person.
“Mohammad” Religiously honored man.
Robert Spencer, recently, also posed the question as to whether (or not) “Mohammad” ever existed – “identity politics” must be addressed on this level…
For instance the term prophet is greek, and has nothing to do with either “Hebrew” (Heb. ‘ibri), or the “Medio-Persian” languages, nor ideas.
Tonysays
Two Christians talking about what the Quran is but in reality lying about Muslims. We see pork eating Christians and alcohol drinking Christians lecturing Muslims about Islam. Christianity allows them to fulfill their carnal desires by sleeping with different women and allowing gay marriages in their Churches. They have to believe in the lie that Jesus died for their sins otherwise how else would they justify their whims and desires.
john smithsays
Tony, a true Christian will try to emulate the ways of Jesus as much as they possibly can. He was the most kind, caring, peaceful, compassionate, loving person this world has ever known. There were no flaws in him, no evil in him, no hate in him. The way he lived his life is the perfect example that all beings should strive to follow.
On the other hand a true muslim will try to emulate the ways of muhammad.
Who was the most vile, evil, hateful, belligerent, abhorrent human being that has ever walked the face of the earth. There was no goodness in him, only evil. There was no love in him, only hate. He was satans messiah, he was anti-christ.
Tony, stay away from islam.
gravenimagesays
“Tony”–really, Abdul–wrote:
Two Christians talking about what the Quran is but in reality lying about Muslims.
…………………..
If Abd Al Fadi and Robert Spencer *really* had anything wrong here Abdul would be glad to list these supposed falsehoods–but he doesn’t, because he’s got nothing.
More:
Note that We see pork eating Christians and alcohol drinking Christians lecturing Muslims about Islam.
…………………..
This is just Abdul saying that no one can criticize Islam, let alone those deemed ‘filthy Infidels”. This is dhimmitude under brutal Shari’ah law. He is enraged that free Infidels reject this crushing of freedom of speech. We have the right to research anything, including Islam.
By the way, I don’t eat pork (I’m vegan) and I rarely drink, but “Tony” wouldn’t want me critically researching Islam, either. So this is just sand-throwing.
More:
Christianity allows them to fulfill their carnal desires by sleeping with different women and allowing gay marriages in their Churches. They have to believe in the lie that Jesus died for their sins otherwise how else would they justify their whims and desires.
…………………..
Just grotesque. I know little about Al Fadi’s personal life, but Robert Spencer is a staunch family man.
Then, Robert Spencer has actually had some issues with gay marriage himself–what “Tony” is *really* enraged over is that Jihad Watch does not call for the murder of homosexuals. Just grotesque.
Then, Muslims consider “marrying” four women–including *underaged little girls*–raping Infidel women in Jihad, and keeping sex slaves to be “chaste”.
Just a few days ago, “Tony” was lauding marital rape *during labor*, causing pain and endangering wife and child:
He said that anyone who does not believe this appalling marital rape to be fine is “disgusting”.
Tonysays
gravenimage aka Lucifer who’s a lawyer for al Fadi and Sheikh Spencer has to come here and worry about my comments on Christianity. Instead of worrying about what his Christian brethren do all the time he has to talk about nonsense.
gravenimagesays
Note that “Tony”–really, Abdul–considers me “Lucifer” for saying that Infidels have the right to research the Qur’an. This shows how terrified he is that non-Muslims are learning about this savagery.
Then, he has lauded raping little girls and slaughtering unbelieves, and calls me “Lucifer” for opposing such horrors.
And he *still* can’t point out anything that Al Fadi and Robert Spencer got wrong. Really, this is just sad.
And while I will point out when Abdul here lies about Christianity, his main use here is exposing just how ugly Islam is.
And no–I don’t come to Jihad Watch to reply to his vicious posts–I read and comment here all the time, and have since I discovered this site in 2006.
Abdul’s bizarre idea that I come here to reply to him is truly odd–but very common narcissism from Jihad apologists. Very telling.
Then, I actually concern myself with a wide range of issues here. But note that Abdul is unable to cite anything today that is worse than the horrors of Islam–because, as usual, he’s got nothing.
john smithsays
Gravenimage,
He is name calling because he doesn’t have a chance against you.This is exactly how children behave. If one child is losing in some disagreement the’re having, that child will start name calling in an effort to hurt the other, This is exactly what Tony is doing, he is unable to deal with the truth, he doesn’t have a valid answer for you, so he calls you names.
john smithsays
P.S. by the way I’d rather he’d call me lucifer than allah
gravenimagesays
Thanks, John.
And I agree–if someone evil calls you evil, this is actually a compliment and sign you are on the right track.
gravenimagesays
Video: Al Fadi and Robert Spencer on The Critical Qur’an: What Does the Qur’an Really Say?
……………
Yes–the constant Muslim claims that the Qur’an and other texts of Islam are “taken out of context”. Now, in some cases this *is* valid–but one then has to cite the supposed proper context, and Muslim apologists almost never do. Very telling.
Really, pious Muslims don’t want *anyone” to critically look at Islam.
And the thing about Arabic is ridiculous–especially since many Muslims don’t speak or read Arabic; and even fewer read classical Arabic. Few Christians read ancient Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek, either, but no one would say that one cannot read the Bible unless they learn these ancient and obscure tongues. Most hilarious is that Muslims often–and not always honestly–speak critically of Christianity and Judaism, despite not reading any of these languages either.
Important points about the offensive nature of Jihad until all people have converted to Islam or are killed.
Then–as noted–this violent understanding of Islam is supported by the most knowledgeable of Islamic scholars. Muslim apologists don’t want Infidels to know this–not until it is too late, in any case.
gravenimagesays
And yes–very interesting that there is no real evidence of the Qur’an existing in the seventh century at all–odd, if this was the guiding text of all Muslims right from the beginning of Islam.
Some Muslim scholars are honest about what the Qur’an teaches–but many are engaged in Taqiyya.
And good to see the nonsense passages in the Qur’an addressed, as well. “Miracles of Allah” is a ludicrous claim.
And as noted there is *no* real whitewashing of the wife beating Sura–not that this stops Muslim apologists from trying. But in Dar-al-Islam itself wifebeating is widely tolerated and even lauded–it is only in the West that Muslims pretend this doesn’t exist.
So very sorry to hear that the man whom Robert Spender met in Germany has been killed. Very disturbing.
gravenimagesays
On a lighter matter, I received The Critical Qur’an a couple of days ago. I’ve read the introduction and am now part way through Sura 2, Al Baqara (The Cow).
Very enlightening stuff–and I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about the Qur’an–I’ve read this tedious book five times now–this makes number six.
Then, we have four cats, and I can confirm that a cat will step on the Qur’an. Our cats like to sleep on our laptops if they are left unattended for any length of time, and I laid The Critical Qur’an on my laptop, and came back to find one of the Torbies curled up on it. No names given to protect the feline in question…
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mtman2 says
Very relevant fruitful discussion…!
I do debate Muslims on occasion tho apply myslf in the interchange to enlighten them as to the veracity of Christianity via the Scriptures rather then beat them up over their Koranic platform(convoluted @ best) or the life of “Mohammed”(pedo-rapist + criminal)…!
In my knowing the Scriptures well they cannot get around me with typical deployed scams…working to be kindly as Christ would want me to be(gotta bridle my words) my hope is as they move on in their life will ponder Gods powerful Word which I set before them…d
Here are two powerful ministry’s with converted Muslim Nationals risking their lives in Muslim country’s as WE here speak ~
RUN Ministry.com
VOICE OF MARTYR’S.com
bill says
You can say the same thing about the Christian church. Since the councils of Nicea in the 4th century. men have decided what was to be included and what was to be excluded. Which gospels should be in the bible and which doomed to oblivion. In other words censorship. How worship should be carried out etc.. The Bible is the most edited ‘book’ ever written. One only has to look at the Reformation and the many wars and executions which occurred over how people should be allowed to worship ‘god’.
john smith says
Bill, we here on JW don’t condemn musllims we condemn the ideology of islam. Time after time you are coming out with your condemnation of Christianity, time after time you are showing your support for islamic ideology, Iv’e recognized this for sometime now. You have attacked such people as myself and Gravenimage in the most venomous of manner, why do you do this Bill?
Bill I’ve known for sometime your a muslim and I’m really OK with it, so stop trying to kid us on. Nobody here will hold anything against you for this, and we are so glad that you are corresponding with us. Bill give the bluff up and come and join us, you know in your heart that islam is evil
gravenimage says
bill, the whole point is that Muslims say that there is no inconsistency in the texts of Islam, especially the Qur’an, and this is simply inaccurate.
Then, Christianity has never taught violence as Islam does.
Hesh Knosht says
““Mohammed”(pedo-rapist + criminal)…!”
…
That’s like saying the M.O.S. (“ma[/e]n of sin”) ARE MOSES.
Best to approach with cultured fashion –
“”:Muslim”: Religious person.
“Mohammad” Religiously honored man.
Robert Spencer, recently, also posed the question as to whether (or not) “Mohammad” ever existed – “identity politics” must be addressed on this level…
For instance the term prophet is greek, and has nothing to do with either “Hebrew” (Heb. ‘ibri), or the “Medio-Persian” languages, nor ideas.
Tony says
Two Christians talking about what the Quran is but in reality lying about Muslims. We see pork eating Christians and alcohol drinking Christians lecturing Muslims about Islam. Christianity allows them to fulfill their carnal desires by sleeping with different women and allowing gay marriages in their Churches. They have to believe in the lie that Jesus died for their sins otherwise how else would they justify their whims and desires.
john smith says
Tony, a true Christian will try to emulate the ways of Jesus as much as they possibly can. He was the most kind, caring, peaceful, compassionate, loving person this world has ever known. There were no flaws in him, no evil in him, no hate in him. The way he lived his life is the perfect example that all beings should strive to follow.
On the other hand a true muslim will try to emulate the ways of muhammad.
Who was the most vile, evil, hateful, belligerent, abhorrent human being that has ever walked the face of the earth. There was no goodness in him, only evil. There was no love in him, only hate. He was satans messiah, he was anti-christ.
Tony, stay away from islam.
gravenimage says
“Tony”–really, Abdul–wrote:
Two Christians talking about what the Quran is but in reality lying about Muslims.
…………………..
If Abd Al Fadi and Robert Spencer *really* had anything wrong here Abdul would be glad to list these supposed falsehoods–but he doesn’t, because he’s got nothing.
More:
Note that We see pork eating Christians and alcohol drinking Christians lecturing Muslims about Islam.
…………………..
This is just Abdul saying that no one can criticize Islam, let alone those deemed ‘filthy Infidels”. This is dhimmitude under brutal Shari’ah law. He is enraged that free Infidels reject this crushing of freedom of speech. We have the right to research anything, including Islam.
By the way, I don’t eat pork (I’m vegan) and I rarely drink, but “Tony” wouldn’t want me critically researching Islam, either. So this is just sand-throwing.
More:
Christianity allows them to fulfill their carnal desires by sleeping with different women and allowing gay marriages in their Churches. They have to believe in the lie that Jesus died for their sins otherwise how else would they justify their whims and desires.
…………………..
Just grotesque. I know little about Al Fadi’s personal life, but Robert Spencer is a staunch family man.
Then, Robert Spencer has actually had some issues with gay marriage himself–what “Tony” is *really* enraged over is that Jihad Watch does not call for the murder of homosexuals. Just grotesque.
Then, Muslims consider “marrying” four women–including *underaged little girls*–raping Infidel women in Jihad, and keeping sex slaves to be “chaste”.
Just a few days ago, “Tony” was lauding marital rape *during labor*, causing pain and endangering wife and child:
https://jihadwatch.org/2022/05/muslim-cleric-quotes-muhammad-saying-even-women-in-labor-must-have-sex-if-husband-wants-it#comment-2419135
He said that anyone who does not believe this appalling marital rape to be fine is “disgusting”.
Tony says
gravenimage aka Lucifer who’s a lawyer for al Fadi and Sheikh Spencer has to come here and worry about my comments on Christianity. Instead of worrying about what his Christian brethren do all the time he has to talk about nonsense.
gravenimage says
Note that “Tony”–really, Abdul–considers me “Lucifer” for saying that Infidels have the right to research the Qur’an. This shows how terrified he is that non-Muslims are learning about this savagery.
Then, he has lauded raping little girls and slaughtering unbelieves, and calls me “Lucifer” for opposing such horrors.
And he *still* can’t point out anything that Al Fadi and Robert Spencer got wrong. Really, this is just sad.
And while I will point out when Abdul here lies about Christianity, his main use here is exposing just how ugly Islam is.
And no–I don’t come to Jihad Watch to reply to his vicious posts–I read and comment here all the time, and have since I discovered this site in 2006.
Abdul’s bizarre idea that I come here to reply to him is truly odd–but very common narcissism from Jihad apologists. Very telling.
Then, I actually concern myself with a wide range of issues here. But note that Abdul is unable to cite anything today that is worse than the horrors of Islam–because, as usual, he’s got nothing.
john smith says
Gravenimage,
He is name calling because he doesn’t have a chance against you.This is exactly how children behave. If one child is losing in some disagreement the’re having, that child will start name calling in an effort to hurt the other, This is exactly what Tony is doing, he is unable to deal with the truth, he doesn’t have a valid answer for you, so he calls you names.
john smith says
P.S. by the way I’d rather he’d call me lucifer than allah
gravenimage says
Thanks, John.
And I agree–if someone evil calls you evil, this is actually a compliment and sign you are on the right track.
gravenimage says
Video: Al Fadi and Robert Spencer on The Critical Qur’an: What Does the Qur’an Really Say?
……………
Yes–the constant Muslim claims that the Qur’an and other texts of Islam are “taken out of context”. Now, in some cases this *is* valid–but one then has to cite the supposed proper context, and Muslim apologists almost never do. Very telling.
Really, pious Muslims don’t want *anyone” to critically look at Islam.
And the thing about Arabic is ridiculous–especially since many Muslims don’t speak or read Arabic; and even fewer read classical Arabic. Few Christians read ancient Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek, either, but no one would say that one cannot read the Bible unless they learn these ancient and obscure tongues. Most hilarious is that Muslims often–and not always honestly–speak critically of Christianity and Judaism, despite not reading any of these languages either.
Important points about the offensive nature of Jihad until all people have converted to Islam or are killed.
Then–as noted–this violent understanding of Islam is supported by the most knowledgeable of Islamic scholars. Muslim apologists don’t want Infidels to know this–not until it is too late, in any case.
gravenimage says
And yes–very interesting that there is no real evidence of the Qur’an existing in the seventh century at all–odd, if this was the guiding text of all Muslims right from the beginning of Islam.
Some Muslim scholars are honest about what the Qur’an teaches–but many are engaged in Taqiyya.
And good to see the nonsense passages in the Qur’an addressed, as well. “Miracles of Allah” is a ludicrous claim.
And as noted there is *no* real whitewashing of the wife beating Sura–not that this stops Muslim apologists from trying. But in Dar-al-Islam itself wifebeating is widely tolerated and even lauded–it is only in the West that Muslims pretend this doesn’t exist.
So very sorry to hear that the man whom Robert Spender met in Germany has been killed. Very disturbing.
gravenimage says
On a lighter matter, I received The Critical Qur’an a couple of days ago. I’ve read the introduction and am now part way through Sura 2, Al Baqara (The Cow).
Very enlightening stuff–and I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about the Qur’an–I’ve read this tedious book five times now–this makes number six.
Then, we have four cats, and I can confirm that a cat will step on the Qur’an. Our cats like to sleep on our laptops if they are left unattended for any length of time, and I laid The Critical Qur’an on my laptop, and came back to find one of the Torbies curled up on it. No names given to protect the feline in question…