The Left’s war against civility and the peacefulness of the nation in general looks as if it’s about to escalate.
“Abortion Groups Imply They’re Planning To Storm Catholic Churches On Sunday Over Roe V. Wade,” by Christine Sellers, Daily Caller, May 6, 2022:
The pro-choice group, Ruth Sent Us implied that they’re planning to storm Catholic and Evangelical churches on Sunday in protest of the potential overturning of Roe v. Wade, according to a social media post Tuesday.
The group, whose name honors the late Supreme Court justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, shared a video to their Twitter feed showing women wearing red cloaks protesting about abortion rights inside a Catholic church. The group also called for a “Mother’s Day Strike” on Sunday alongside fellow pro-choice group, Strike For Choice.
“This is what Mother’s Day should look like,” the group wrote in their tweet, encouraging supporters to protest at Catholic and Evangelical churches “nationwide.”…
The group, Ruth Sent Us previously posted a video of pro-choice activists storming a Catholic church in the Archdiocese of San Francisco via their Instagram.
CogitoErgoSum says
So when do they think a human being becomes human and what should the law say about when protection under the laws of the land begin in a human beings life? Otherwise, they are just acting like little children – who may or may not be human.
Wellington says
Sick stuff but very, very Leftist and quite totalitarian, which is to say intolerant of opposing opinions. And why I concluded long ago that Leftism is a mental disease, certainly inimical to true liberty, just as Islam is a horrible excuse for a religion and a mortal enemy of freedom.
BTW, I am pro-choice (just barely) but I don’t mind many restrictions on abortion and I most certainly aver that the 1973 Roe v. Wade case was terribly decided law. Even “enthusiastic” supporters of Roe v. Wade, for instance Lawrence Tribe of Harvard Law School and the recently departed Supreme Court Justice, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, characterized, respectively speaking, the Roe decision from 1973 as a “smokescreen” and “very shaky.’
Abortion should be a state by state matter, regardless of one being pro-life or pro-choice. The 10th Amendment to the Constitution should be paramount. Unfortunately, the bogus Roe v. Wade decision from 1973 ignored the 10th Amendment and just made up the law, incorrectly finding a right to an abortion in the federal Constitution and which constitution accords no such right.
Though pro-choice, I want Roe v. Wade to be overturned. Way overdue.
CogitoErgoSum says
Wellington, when do you think a human being becomes human and entitled to protection under the law?
Wellington says
A very interesting and difficult question, CES.
To date, no legal system, even the most advanced like Judaic Law, Roman Law or Common Law, has not accorded to fetuses full personhood or full citizenship rights (thus only occurs at birth).
And yet, under current American law, if one murders a pregnant woman they are charged with TWO murders. I’m certain this “discrepancy,” which is indeed rooted in contradiction, only demonstrates in yet one more way the “difficulty” of the entire abortion issue.
Now, I know you are religious and you know I am not. Nonetheless, in an optimal ethical world, and since when life begins is disputed by reasonable minds, therefore, and purely along these logical and ethical lines, why should the fetus not be entitled to the benefit of the doubt? Pro-choice people—N.B., especially pro-choice women, whom I have found to be the least capable as a group of debating the entire abortion issue in a rational and detached manner—refrain from answering this query. You bet they do.
Which takes me to my position per se. You see, I have an amazing capacity to alienate people on both sides of an issue. It’s a gift. I think the pro-life crowd definitely has the better of the argument, but I still think—and with many restrictions—a pregnant woman should have a choice about aborting a child under certain extreme circumstances, for instance a baby about to be born with massive birth defects (thank you, God, all powerful as you’re supposed to be, not disallowing this) and when the very life, not just the health, of the mother is undebatable.
Your turn, CES. As always, I respect your view on matters, no what that matter might be. Your turn, pal.
CogitoErgoSum says
Yes, my view is that of the Catholic Church which is that human life begins at conception. But I also have the belief that God has granted human beings the right to make their own laws and the people of the United States can decide through their government to whom their laws apply and when. I think the people could perfectly well decide that the laws of the U.S. become effective for each individual at birth – and then define birth as the point at which the umbilical cord is cut and the baby takes its first breath. A woman would then be able to make a decision on whether or not to give birth for whatever reason she wishes. Now, in my view this would still be an abortion and a sin for the murder of a baby but any punishment for it would be between God and the sinner. If I were a legislator I would not vote to pass such a law but I would abide by the decision of the majority needed to pass such a law. This is why it is best to leave the decision to each individual state. People can move to the state which has the laws most suitable to their own beliefs or else they can work through the legal to pass a better law they like.
Anyway, I’m always glad to read your views on any subject. Might be an interesting day tomorrow and for many tomorrows to come. It’s a tough topic to discuss and people really get worked up about it.
gravenimage says
Good exchange, Wellington and CogitoErgoSum.
Kepha says
I’m of the mind that an abortion may be justified to save the LIFE of the mother; but you call it a tragedy rather than a right–and this only after every possible way to save both lives has been deemed impossible. I also note that cases in which saving the mother’s life are at stake are very, very rare.
As an Evangelical Protestant, I concur with the view that life begins at conception.
I pray that both Roe and Obergefell get overturned. After two years in Bangkok, I am convinced that the normalization of LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ is merely cover for grooming generations of vulnerable young for exploitation by elite males.
Infidel says
I know you asked Wellington, but I’d put it at the point where a brain and nervous system is sufficiently developed to feel pain, and where a heartbeat is detected. As a result, I support all those states that have adapted either heartbeat or pain capable bills
Not sure whether it should be protected at the zygote stage, but open to arguments on that. Like our new SCOTUS justice, I am not a biologist ?
CogitoErgoSum says
Since I believe a human being is human from the moment of conception, granting rights to a human being at anytime while still inside the mother’s womb is acceptable to me. However, I can see classifying the womb as being a place beyond the jurisdiction of the United States. The laws of the United States and its protections would begin once a baby has exited the womb and entered the territory of the United States. That does not completely jibe with my moral system but it does have some logic to it. So, yes, any point as close as possible to conception is good with me. And yes, each state should be allowed to decide that point.
somehistory says
It is “always” a Life. Two **living** cells unite to form a new *living* organism. This is a separate, *living* organism from the get-go and continues to live and grow and develop from the Blueprint, the DNA code embedded in those cells until the baby is born, continues to grow and change until death intervenes.
No other cell from a human body, put in a dish with a cell from another human, can do this. Other cells taken from the body…if one were to take 1 cell and put it with 1 cell from another person, would just die and not do anything together in a dish.
These two different cells combining to make a new person is a Miracle. Miracles were once appreciated and should be still.
bill says
Overturning RvW will just lead to an avalanche of reactionary states enacting draconian laws against abortion. I believe one state is calling it murder which contradicts medical science for one thing. State rights are one thing but USA is supposed to be one country, you do not have different civil rights in one state and not another. The majority of Western nations have abortion laws which apply to all their citizens. If USA is to call itself a civilised country it should be the same there,
As I have said many times, if men had to carry the child for nine months, having all the discomforts and inconveniences, not to mention dangers that that entails. Then have to endure childbirth and the difficult job of caring for a child during the first months and years of life; there would be no debate about abortions
.
CogitoErgoSum says
Wait, are you saying men can’t give birth?
Western Canadian says
You appear to have spent a great deal of time, spewing gibberish .No, medical science does not refute the idea that abortion would be murder. The US is a UNION of 50 different regions, which were considered and still could be considered, discrete countries unto themselves, joined together for certain common purposes. With the powers granted to the FEDERATION that they have joined, to be STRICTLY LIMITED. Roe/wade violently overstepped the bounds of the power granted to both the court, and the federation. Men owned slaves. And recognized it was wrong. And ended slavery. Could women do the same with abortion?
gravenimage says
How does identifying abortion as murder “contradict medical science”?
Dan says
That’s a crock.
The fallacy of that kind of logic can be used on anything.
If women knew they’d have to be the main bread winner all their lives, oft times the SOLE income source and never allowed to just quit their job to get married and stay at home to raise the kids WITHOUT being looked on as a slacker, and that that the stress of that responsibility ensured they’d die 5-10% earlier than men, and that when the family is in some form of danger THEY would have to stay and fight while the man could run away with the children, and that when war broke out, THEY would be on the front lines when it’s brutal hand to hand combat to the death, and they had to live in the same filthy uniform for weeks, pissing and crapping in a foxhole in 40 below weather because the battle front has stalemated…
There would be no debate about who should earn a higher paycheck.
Heck.
A plumber is one of the highest paid trades, and I’ve NEVER YET seen a woman plumber. I have no doubt women can do the job if they have to, but I have not seen ONE woman make a career out of cleaning sewage.
gravenimage says
Dan wrote:
A plumber is one of the highest paid trades, and I’ve NEVER YET seen a woman plumber.
…………………
Right near me here in Oakland:
Women’s Plumbing Repair
https://www.yelp.com/biz/womens-plumbing-repair-oakland?osq=Female+Plumber
Four and a half stars on Yelp!
somehistory says
They have learned something from the mozlum terrorists who invade churches…which open their doors to anyone who wishes to enter…and take out their anger and violence on innocent people.
Will they be shouting something about a “bar” or maybe they will choose just to begin hurting people who have no say…really no say…in what the courts do at this point? All because they must do as they please…even to murdering innocent children who should be welcomed with open arms and hearts and loved.
If Christians could stop this mass baby-killing, it would never have begun and it wouldn’t still be going after fifty years and somewhere near seventy million lives sacrificed on the altar of convenience and loose morals and unbridled sex.
While watching them physically assault….by spraying things in the faces… those who want babies to live, and then brag about it, threatening to do it again, and telling the young men that they didn’t have a say in this issue, I couldn’t help but see in my mind, the words about those “sacrificing their children to the fire, to molech”…and wondering if they were dressed as scantily with as much makeup and piercings as those I saw last night.
Justice Thomas said the Court will not be bullied into making the decision they want. and Roberts said something similar. I hope they can stand their ground. If it goes the other way than Justice Alito’s writing indicated, these terrorists…yes they are…will believe they caused things to go their way. then, what next?
Kepha says
somehistory wrote: ” I couldn’t help but see in my mind, the words about those “sacrificing their children to the fire, to molech”…”
Same here. And I read through the whole of the Old and New Testaments at least once per year. I tremble for my country at this thought.
somehistory says
Kepha,
It’s an awful thing, one that when I first read those words as a young person, I was so glad those people no longer lived on this earth. and now, it’s as if they were always here, just waiting to be arrogant enough to do this in front of us all. In front of God Who condemned the evil so long ago
Westman says
As an Agnostic I can’t claim that abortion limitations are necessary in compliance to a God. I just find the ideas of convenient abortion, particularly as a means of birth control for the lazy, repugnant.
Blacks in the US are being diluted by abortion and Hispanic migration, from 18% in 1960 to 12.4% today. BLM in the streets won’t change that trend. Responsible fathers could.
Perhaps this demand for continuation of convenient abortion will be a test of whether the Christian God is really watching and will punish a nation that eliminates the unborn. A God must have a red line. The War in Ukraine might easily turn into a nuclear nightmare for which the religious can claim God’s justice for abortion mills. The set-up is in place. Diety only needs to pull the trigger.
GreekEmpress says
Liturgy could be very interesting tomorrow.
I hope the Greek Emperor doesn’t have to bail me out of the local cooler.
I can envision a similar scenario to Our Lord clearing out the money changers from the Temple.
CogitoErgoSum says
Would be best just to sit quietly and let them have their say and then invite them to stay for Mass or else leave the church so everyone else can attend the Mass. If they do not leave or if they cause a disturbance I would call the the police and let law enforcement take charge.
somehistory says
Have your phone camera on so if they assault you, you’ll have good evidence when you call the PD.
Spitting, touching, …any kind…is assault. these should get their “hate crime” classification and if they don’t leave when asked, they are trespassing…which is also a crime.
Stay safe and remember, Prayer is powerful as there is a Powerful One Who answers.
gravenimage says
Stay safe, GreekEmpress and Somehistory. Good advice.
Infidel says
Just have your guns w/ you, y’all! This ain’t a call for violence, but rather a call to be prepared if Antifa and/or BLM stormtroopers start banging on your doors and your city PD is at the beck and call of one of our illustrious mayors like Lori Lightfoot or London Breed. Not to mention all those illustrious Soros funded DAs like Chesa Boudean or Kim Fox
somehistory says
Glenn Beck has a young woman who works for him who told her story on his show the other evening.
It seems when she was very young, she and her fellow already had a child together, but he did not support them. Then, she became pregnant again and knew that he was against killing the baby, but his family…his family…pressured her to get rid of the baby because he already didn’t do his full duty as a father.
So, against her wishes, against what she thought was right, she went to the doctor. She was seven weeks along and asked the doctor, “Is it a baby?” and the doctor said, “NO, it’s a clump of cells.”
Later on, this young lady got married and became pregnant. When she was ***six**** weeks along, she went to a doctor…not the same one, thankfully… and the doctor did a sonogram and asked the young mother, “Would you like to see your baby’s heart beating.?”
she mourns the one she didn’t carry and wants other young girls to realize what they are doing so they won’t have the regret that she carries.
gravenimage says
Very sad.
Kepha says
Nothing but compassion for that young woman. I pray that more and more of our nation’s young might come around to understanding that sex results in babies, not clumps of cells, and that those young, vulnerable lives are to be protected, as well as those of the noisily articulate.
somehistory says
she brought me near to tears…for her and her baby and for the brothers and sisters who had no chance to know the one who is lost.
somehistory says
the Bible gave commands to the Jews in Exodus21 and said that if two men are fighting and one strikes a pregnant woman, and the baby is born early, but without further injury, the husband/father can impose a fine.
If “further injury” occurs, then, “life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand.” It doesn’t give the age of the unborn baby, nor does it say that the injury is only what the mother might receive.
Since the Bible also says that God “sees the embryo,” logic said He would care if the baby was injured or killed and require “like for like.”
Personal Injury Laws
…22 “If men who are fighting strike a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely, but there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband demands and as the court allows. 23 But if a serious injury results, then you must require a life for a life— 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,…”
https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-23.htm
Inquiring Minds says
Curious, if a life for a life is required, in a situation in which “further injury” caused the death of an unborn child would the man who struck the pregnant woman be executed for murder? If both the woman and the unborn child perished, whose life would they take in addition to the man?
gravenimage says
This is ludicrous. A murderer can kill more than one person, unborn or otherwise. This doesn’t mean that others are held falsely responsible for other deaths. This “reasoning” is just bizarre.
somehistory says
absolutely. One can only give his life once, even if he is a mass-murderer or a serial killer.
Whether it’s the mother or the infant, if there is death, the one who did the deed forfeits his life. If both died, he would still forfeit his life.
gravenimage says
Pro-abortion group encourages supporters to storm churches nationwide on Mother’s Day
………….
Just disgusting–so Mother’s Day should be all about abortion?
And I’m so tired of references to The Handmaid’s Tale–the only place this actually exists in the modern age is in Islam, *not* Christianity.
Kepha says
As an Evangelical Christian of partly German-Jewish descent who has lived in places where the idea of female literacy was introduced by Christian missionaries, I see Margaret Attwood’s book as the sort of hate-and-fear mongering that would make the soul of Julius Streicher smile down in Hell.
gravenimage says
Yes, Kepha–this is just absurd. And Margaret Atwood has never said *anything* against Islamic oppression of women that I have seen–yet she has pretended for years that Jews and Christians can’t wait to systematically oppress women. Never mind that no one is calling for this.
Here’s a generally good piece from a couple of years ago from Phyllis Chesler:
“Gilead Resembles an Islamic Theocracy, not Trump’s America”
https://quillette.com/2019/10/02/gilead-resembles-an-islamic-theocracy-not-trumps-america/
tgusa says
No animal or bug on the planet would do this. Honestly. I’m content to see the left not breed. I just don’t want to pay for their reckless non thinking behavior. Lots of things have changed since Roe vs Wade contraceptive wise. But even back then and still today I believe, don’t do the deed without considering the consequences and that rule goes for most everything. I have a question for the left. Do unwanted and preventable pregnancies that lead to abortion and the procedures and personnel required to end the pregnancy contribute to climate change?
Storming this or that. Its what the left does, consistently. My apologies but, yawn…
somehistory says
I have often prayed that they would not be able to get pregnant or have any babies. Children are gifts from God and they destroy those precious gifts without so much as a backward glance…and then brag about it later.
Kepha says
somehistory wrote: ” I couldn’t help but see in my mind, the words about those “sacrificing their children to the fire, to molech”…”
Same here. And I read through the whole of the Old and New Testaments at least once per year. I tremble for my country at this thought.
somehistory says
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/psaki-shuts-down-anti-abortion-reporter-who-keeps-asking-is-anyone-in-the-administration-looking-out-for-the-unborn-child/ar-AAX1mHq?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=
“Psaki Shuts Down Anti-Abortion Reporter Who Keeps Asking ‘Is Anyone In The Administration Looking Out For The Unborn Child?”
and the answer she wouldn’t give is “no.”
somehistory says
I once really liked these jeans
“Levi Strauss Calls Abortion Access a ‘Critical Business Issue.’ Here’s Why.’
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/levi-strauss-calls-abortion-access-a-critical-business-issue-here-s-why/ar-AAWVsFU?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=
James Lincoln says
somehistory,
Back in the 70s, all I wore were Levi jeans.
Bellbottoms with a wide leather belt, a big buckle – and a paisley shirt with wide collars.
somehistory says
James,
i can imagine that. One of my brothers was in the Navy and his whites had those bell bottoms. he really looked sharp.
Are paisley shirts still made?
I think I still have one pair of levi’s but not sure I’ll ever have another, as I didn’t buy them for myself. My daughter likes to buy me stuff…clothes, etc.
It’s so disappointing to see such happening today as the caving to pressure.
Tony says
What a disgusting religion Christianity has become to allow abortions to become rampant in society. Let’s not forget that Biden is a devout catholic who believes that it’s allowed to do abortions. Nonmuslim women can’t control what happens in between their legs by not wearing any condoms. Christianity promotes feminism and allows hatred of family but it’s okay to keep dogs and cats and allow them to lick their lips and spoons. Conservatives have to pretend that Christianity doesn’t allow it but liberal Christians are the ones making the policy.
CogitoErgoSum says
Tony, when do you think a human being becomes a human being? Do you think Christians are human beings the same as Muslims? Do you think Christians should they be killed if they fail to submit to Islam or to pay the Jizya in order to remain Christians?
gravenimage says
“Tony”–really, Abdul–wrote:
What a disgusting religion Christianity has become to allow abortions to become rampant in society. Let’s not forget that Biden is a devout catholic who believes that it’s allowed to do abortions.
…………………
Abortion is allowed in many Muslim countries. Of course, “Tony” has no problem with this. He just wants to twit Infidels.
More: .
Nonmuslim women can’t control what happens in between their legs by not wearing any condoms. Christianity promotes feminism and allows hatred of family but it’s okay to keep dogs and cats and allow them to lick their lips and spoons. Conservatives have to pretend that Christianity doesn’t allow it but liberal Christians are the ones making the policy.
…………………
Note that not beating women and raping them while they are in labor–something “Tony” lauded just recently–is considered “hatred of family” by pious Muslims. *Ugh*.
Then, this is Islamic “morality”, where raping children and murdering unbelievers is lauded, but allowing dogs to lick spoons (not common save for children, in any case, but never mind) is considered a great evil.
Ewanda says
The only way to take the steam out of the pro choice mobs is to write into the Constitution that women have the right NOT TO HAVE SEX … that’s putting the horse in front of the cart where it should be and not after the fact. Sometimes I wonder if the right to an abortion was made into law over the centuries, by men in power whose careers would be jeopardized if ever it was found out that they were dallying and sticking things in where they are not wanted. just wondering …
gravenimage says
What? Where does the Constitution say that women do not have the right not to have sex? Are you confusing the US Constitution with Shari’ah law?
Andrew Blackadder says
I look forward to seeing these young women walk into a mosque and tell those who are sniffing each out that for 1400 years these men have degraded the women of islam… Would be a nice shit show to see that…
I can dream cant I ?.
Silly silly wee lassies that know nothing of the world at large.
Abdul says
Hello
gravenimage says
Is this the same Abdul as “Tony”, or another one?
Has he forgotten that he is now posting under an Infidel name?
JHL says
Abortion is never a substitute for birth control.
somehistory says
But that is what it is used for…in nearly 93% of the “cases” according to gallup.
E T says
If you can walk around for 2 years plus with a mask on, surely one could wear a condom for however long it takes.
I find it amusing the same crazies who say “My body, my choice”, want all vaccinated “for the greater good”. They should check the CDC VAERS numbers up to April 29, 2022
adverse reactions 1,255,355
deaths 27,758
serious injuries 226,703
Keep in mind VAERS has historically reported at 1%.
The Economic Forum clowns want the world population to be reduced by 95% – – I can’t imagine whose side they are on.
Oh well, “ Happy Birthing Day” to all you little mothers.
gravenimage says
It certainly *shouldn’t be*, JHL–but it frequently is. I’ve forgotten the exact numbers, but I recall an article back in the 1980s that noted that only a fraction of the then current rate of abortions would be performed if the only reason was failed birth control, always fairly rare.
gravenimage says
There *have* been some attacks on Churches:
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/News/video/abortion-rights-battle-mothers-day-84574028
So far ugly graffiti and vandalism like broken windows. No one has been hurt–so far, at least.
Note that it doesn’t matter that many American Catholics are actually pro-choice.
gravenimage says
Here is a pro-abortion demonstration in front of a church in NYC:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-church-abortion-protesters
Note especially the woman screaming “thank God for abortion!”, and even worse, the one with dolls and a mask screaming “I’m killing the babies”. Contrast this with the dignity of those guarding the church.