“But something else is concerning to me: the regression of us Christians when we take away freedom of conscience. Think of the Christian doctors and hospital institutions that do not have the right of conscientious objection, for example, for euthanasia. How? The Church has moved on and you Christian countries go backwards? Think of this because it is a truth. Today, we Christians have the danger that some governments will take away our freedom of conscience, which is the first step toward freedom of worship. The response isn’t easy. But, let’s not accuse Muslims. Let’s accuse ourselves also in these countries where this happens. It is a shame.”
Note what is happening here. The Pope is comparing Islam’s death penalty for apostasy, which is taught by Muhammad (making it virtually impossible to reform or refashion) and by all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, with post-Christian hospitals not allowing Christians to object to euthanasia. And he is ascribing the latter to Christianity.
Is there no low to which he will not stoop in order to defend Islam?
The death penalty for apostasy is part of Islamic law. It’s based on the Qur’an: “They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.” (Qur’an 4:89)
A hadith depicts Muhammad saying: “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him” (Bukhari 9.84.57). The death penalty for apostasy is part of Islamic law according to all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence.
This is still the position of all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, both Sunni and Shi’ite. Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the most renowned and prominent Muslim cleric in the world, has stated: “The Muslim jurists are unanimous that apostates must be punished, yet they differ as to determining the kind of punishment to be inflicted upon them. The majority of them, including the four main schools of jurisprudence (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi’i, and Hanbali) as well as the other four schools of jurisprudence (the four Shiite schools of Az-Zaidiyyah, Al-Ithna-‘ashriyyah, Al-Ja’fariyyah, and Az-Zaheriyyah) agree that apostates must be executed.”
Qaradawi also once famously said: “If they had gotten rid of the apostasy punishment, Islam wouldn’t exist today.”
“Leave them; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” (Matthew 15:14)
“Full text of Pope Francis’ in-flight press conference from Rabat,” CNA, March 31, 2019:
…Alessandro Gisotti: Clearly, as always, as is tradition, we start with the local media. Siham Toufiki, do you want to ask the question in English, as you like.
Siham Toufiki, MAP: I will ask in French … There were very powerful moments. This visit was exceptional, historic for the Moroccan people. What are the consequences of this visit for the future, for world peace, for coexistence in the dialogue between cultures?
Pope Francis: I will say that now there are flowers, the fruits will come later, but the flowers are promising. I am happy because in these two journeys I have been able to talk much about what is in my heart — peace, unity, fraternity. With Muslim brothers and sisters, we sealed this fraternity in the Abu Dhabi document, and here in Morocco, with this we have all seen a freedom, a welcome, all brothers with such great respect, and this beautiful flower of coexistence, a beautiful flower that is promising to bear fruit.
We must not give up. It is true that there will be still be difficulties. There will be many difficulties because unfortunately there are fundamentalist groups. This too, I would like to say clearly: in every religion there are always fundamentalist groups, who do not want to go forward and [who] live with bitter memories of past struggles and seek more war and also sow fear; and we have seen that it is more beautiful to sow hope. Sowing hope is holding hands, always forward.
We have seen, even in the dialogue with you here in Morocco that bridges are needed, and we feel pain when we see people who prefer to build walls. Why do we feel sad? Because those who build walls will end up being prisoners of the walls they build. Instead, those who build bridges will go forward. Building bridges, for me, is something that goes almost beyond human because it takes great effort.
I was very touched by a sentence in the novel, “The Bridge on the Drina,” by Ivo Andrić. He says that the bridge is made by God with the wings of angels so that men can communicate … so that men can communicate. The bridge is for human communication. And this is beautiful and I saw it here in Morocco. It is beautiful. Instead of walls that are against communication — they are for isolation and those that build them will become prisoners of those walls. So, a summary: the fruits are not seen, but we see so many flowers that will bear fruit. Let’s move forward like this.
Gisotti: Holy Father, Nicolas Seneze from La Croix will now ask his question, perhaps Cristina Cabrejas can get closer so that we save time.
Nicolas Seneze, La Croix: Good evening, Holy Father. Yesterday the King of Morocco said he will protect Jewish Moroccans, and Christians from other countries who live in Morocco. This begs the question: what about the Muslims who convert to Christianity? I wanted to know if you are concerned about these men and women, who risk prison, or death in some Muslim countries, like the Emirates, which you visited. And also a question that is a bit sneaky, which is about Cardinal Barbarin, who was born in Rabat, which you visited for two days.
Pope Francis: And a question?
Seneze: It is a bit tricky, I know, but this week the councils of the Diocese of Lyon voted almost unanimously that a lasting solution be found to his retirement (leave of absence). Setting aside {inaudible} of the cardinal, I wanted to know if it is possible for you, who are very attached to the synodality of the Church, to hear this appeal of a diocese that has such a difficult situation? Thank you.
Pope Francis: The first was what?
Seneze: Muslims who convert to Christianity.
Pope Francis: I can say that in Morocco there is freedom of worship, there is religious liberty, there’s liberty of belonging to a religious creed. Then, freedom always develops, it grows. Think of us Christians 300 years ago, if there was this freedom that we have today. The faith grows in the awareness, the ability to understand itself. A monk from among you, a Frenchman, Vincent of Lérins, in the 9th or 8th century [Ed. 5th century] coined a beautiful expression to explain how you can grow in the faith, better explain things, grow also in morality, but also remaining faithful to your roots. He said three words that precisely mark the way. He said that growing in explication and in understanding of the faith and morality must be “annis scilicet consolidetur, dilatetur tempore, sublimetur aetate,” that is, it must be strengthened in years, enlarged in time, but it is the same faith, and sublimated in years.
So, we understand, for example, that today we in the Church have removed the death penalty from the Catechesim of the Catholic Church. Three hundred years ago, heretics were burned alive. Because the Church has grown in moral conscience, respect for the person, and freedom of worship. We too must continue to grow. There are people, Catholics, who do not accept what the Second Vatican Council said about freedom of worship, freedom of conscience. There are people who don’t accept it. Catholics. Also we have this problem. But, the Muslim brothers also grow in conscience. In some countries, they don’t understand well or they don’t grow like in others.
In Morocco, there is this growth. In this frame, there is the problem of conversion, some countries still don’t see it. I don’t know if it’s prohibited, but the practice is prohibited. Some countries like Morocco don’t make problems – they’re more open, more respectful, they seek a certain way of proceeding with discretion. Other countries with whom I’ve spoken say, “We have no problem, but we prefer they do the baptism outside of the country and they return Christians.” But, there are ways of progressing in the freedom of religion and the freedom of worship.
But something else is concerning to me: the regression of us Christians when we take away freedom of conscience. Think of the Christian doctors and hospital institutions that do not have the right of conscientious objection, for example, for euthanasia. How? The Church has moved on and you Christian countries go backwards? Think of this because it is a truth. Today, we Christians have the danger that some governments will take away our freedom of conscience, which is the first step toward freedom of worship. The response isn’t easy. But, let’s not accuse Muslims. Let’s accuse ourselves also in these countries where this happens. It is a shame….