Wrong....only a few hundred people attented the funeral.

Posted by: orpheus at November 10, 2004 7:47 AM

Muslims can't expect the Dutch people to tolerate their vehemiant hatred of dutch liberalism, and culture (Amsterdam must be hell for the occultist freaks, legalised cannabis, legal prostitution... jeez-us mo-ham-ed must be turning in thepig sty he was buried in).

Posted by: Rikki at November 10, 2004 7:51 AM

It is important that we not overestimate the degree of resistance occurring in the Netherlands by relying too much on media sensationalism.

Browne reports thousands attended the funeral, Dhimmi Watch reader Orpheus says only a few hundred. It is still unclear who is responsible for arson attacks on mosques and churches.

Aside from the Dutch vocalizing their outrage, there is no evidence that any direct attacks were carried out on any innocent citizens, except the grenade attack by an “Asian” on three Dutch police officers sent to make an arrest.

The reports in Germany are suggesting that there is an "escalation" in unrest in the Netherlands, but it is not a top news story. German media generally downplays such stories.

I think that if the race riots in the UK and the immigrant riots in France, which were significantly worse than the criminal harassment now seen in the Netherlands, didn’t force reform, this too will fizzle soon and the dhimmification can continue.

I don't foresee the type of action necessary to destroy Islamism in Europe happening as a result of this assassination.

Occupied Europe out.

Posted by: Andrew at November 10, 2004 8:14 AM

The Simon Wiesenthal center has prepared a petition to be sent directly to the Dutch PM and EU President.

Voice your outrage and demand action now.

http://www.wiesenthal.com/social/press/pet1.cfm?petid=133&m=24490L30046973s&src=xxx

Posted by: Andrew at November 10, 2004 8:23 AM

Muslims have no respect for anyone. They should be deported out of Holland for this. However, don't try to redirect them to the United States, we don't want them, nor do we need them here.

They're a constant irritation to everyone's harmony.

Posted by: DCWatson at November 10, 2004 8:27 AM

Andrew and Orpheus:

Thousands turned out to line the streets at the funeral.

Posted by: Mackie at November 10, 2004 8:52 AM

MACKIE

Can you tell us more about the general mood of the mourners and the population at large?

Posted by: Andrew at November 10, 2004 9:34 AM

It is laughable how muslims are concerned for their own necks when atrocities are committed by muslims in countries kind enough to take them in and bend over backwards to give into their every whim and religious superstition. Can I go over to my neighbors house, kill half the family, burn the house down, bitch and moan that their customs dont meet my religious requirements.....and then still expect warm hospitality and welcome? They seem to have these PR squads ready to spring into action when islamic terror rears its ugly head...ready to assure us that they do not condone the killing of infidels (although their koran does) and the acts were "unislamic" (although they were taken from the pages of the koran)....they are going to have to get a new PR campaign, the old one doesnt seem to be working any longer, no one belives them due to their yak yak yak and no action action action.

Posted by: USAgirl at November 10, 2004 9:50 AM

"A Muslim school in the southern Dutch village of Uden was burnt down last night. The attackers left a message referring to the murder."

"Yesterday, two Protestant churches in Utrecht and Amersfoort had petrol bombs thrown at them, while a Middle Eastern radical Islamic group threatened reprisals if the mosque attacks continue."

The people have already shown that they will not tolerate islam. What would seriously happen if the middle eastern islamic group started reprisals. Do I hear all out civilian warfare on islam?

Posted by: bart at November 10, 2004 10:14 AM

- Immigration needs to first be STOPPED and then greatly reduced, especially in America.

- orpheus needs to get the facts straight. Especially the words "lined" and "streets." This person posting must be someone under 16.

- Islam is like a well organized crime family, with it's apologists, PR men, hit-men, dirty-work men, false-righteousness, false-charity, and pay-for-protection schemes.

- Islam in America hides behind the mask of freedom which comes from our country's heritage and not from Islam at all.

Posted by: Report at November 10, 2004 10:15 AM

Dear all

I live in de center of Rotterdam, a city with a 47% muslim population, on the weekly marked and in the shops there was not 1 single muslim, I have never seen such a thing before, never, It looks like Rotterdam in the 50 's....

Posted by: biker at November 10, 2004 10:48 AM

I demand immigration reform now. I want someone to do something about this disaster before America in its totality resembles a combination of south central LA, Dearborn Michigan and 180th Block neighborhood of Queens.

But Bush is not going to do it.

http://www.drudgereport.com/

Apparently he fails to recognize the seriousness of the immigration problem, which is why I hesitated to give him my vote. The battle is not just in Fallujah, it is gathering strength in America, just look at the brazen attitude of the Islamic community who are as we speak, attempting to implement their culture upon the rest of us. For them, "live and let live" is an alien notion.

A long time ago, Robert Kennedy visited "Bed sty" Brooklyn personally to open an office designed to help out the many poor black people of that ghetto area. He was asked by someone what he thought he would be if he grew up there. His reply was "Probably a JD (juvenile delinquent)".

I think every politician in this country should be required to personally visit the main cities on the front line on the immigrant invasion of America and before they can campaign. If they ever saw South Central LA, or Bedford Stuyvesent, they would realize the world they inhabit is not the reality of the rest of America.

But if politicians can't even recognize that a few blocks from the White House can easily provide insight on how dangerous immigration and multicultural promotion has destroyed any reasonable hope for the future of those cities currently affected, what will?

The continued cultural dismantling via uncontrolled immigration and force multiculturism indoctrination insures that our nation will cease to exist in its current form within our lifetimes.

That begs the question, what are our soldiers fighting for? It would seem that America doesn't belong to Americans anymore and is rapidly transforming into a grotesque Babelopolis falling in a great cultural death spiral.

Posted by: Andrew at November 10, 2004 10:55 AM

What do you expect?

Muslim brothers of the global jihad have long stood silent in the face of oppression and hatred committed against them by wicked governments and their evil and godless peoples.

How much do you expect the peaceful muslims to take from people they are superior to in every way?

Oh Allah.. Smite the infidel for his wicked deeds. Send them all to hell where they belong. And only through your mercy will the skins of the evil and godless ones be boiled in oil and their eyeballs ripped from their heads.

Posted by: Mahdi Al-Dajjal at November 10, 2004 10:58 AM

Mahdi Al-Dajjal:

What do you expect?

I expect your people to act like humans, rather than wild animals.

Apparently, I expect too much.

Posted by: lobo91 at November 10, 2004 11:12 AM

The mild protests in Holland are'nt even making the news in the States. In order to get news coverage worthy of putting on TV, the mosque bombers need to provide TV cameras with the type of video that always gets big press. The goal is to bring worldwide attention to the brutal murder of Van Gogh and to focus on the root cause of this attack. isalm in essence needs to be put on trial here. Videos showing mosques burning to the ground will give people pause and they will wonder hmmm, now what did these muslims do to deserve this? People will question isalm not the bombers. To parady the absuridy of islamic followers I make the following pronouncement. Almighty God (PBUH)has deemed mosque bombings to be just and rightious. Fighters in the Holy Army of the Almighty God have been given divine approval to strike the evil islamic empire any time in order to strike fear in the hearts of all isalmic crusaders and occupiers.

Posted by: cross at November 10, 2004 11:38 AM

Mahdi Al-Dajjal,

You must not make any more threats or I will report you the internet police and they will not be kind to you. They will take you and do this...

Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”
Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’ Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid.”
Qur’an 4:3 “If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with orphans, marry women of your choice who seem good to you, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to do justice (to so many), then only one, or (a slave) that you possess, that will be more suitable. And give the women their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, eat it with enjoyment, take it with right good cheer and absorb it (in your wealth).”
Qur’an 4:11 “Allah directs you in regard of your Children’s (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females…. These are settled portions ordained by Allah.”
Bukhari:V1B22N28 “The Prophet said: ‘I was shown the Hell Fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who are disbelievers or ungrateful.’ When asked what they were ungrateful for, the Prophet answered, ‘All the favors done for them by their husbands.’”
Muslim:B1N142 “‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.’ A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah’s Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.’ Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.’”
Qur’an 4:43 “Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.” [The Qur’an claims women are unclean and polluted—worse than dirt.]
Bukhari:V4B55N547 “The Prophet said, ‘But for the Israelis, meat would not decay, and if it were not for Eve, wives would never betray their husbands.’”
Qur’an 33:59 “Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”
Qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”
Bukhari:V4B52N143/V5B59N523 “When we reached Khaybar, Muhammad said that Allah had enabled him to conquer them. It was then that the beauty of Safiyah was described to him. Her husband had been killed, so Allah’s Apostle selected her for himself. He took her along with him till we reached a place called Sad where her menses were over and he took her for his wife, consummating his marriage to her, and forcing her to wear the veil.’”
Bukhari:V5B59N524 “The Muslims said among themselves, ‘Will Safiyah be one of the Prophet’s wives or just a lady captive and one of his possessions?’”
Ishaq:593 “From the captives of Hunayn, Allah’s Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another.”
Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”
Ishaq:584 “Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman.”
Ishaq:185 “In hell I saw women hanging by their breasts. They had fathered bastards.”
Qur’an 24:31 “Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty except what (must) appear; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display them except to their husbands...”
Qur’an 24:34 “Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. [And here’s the freedom-to-pimp card:] But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving.”
Ishaq:469 “The Apostle said, ‘Every wailing woman lies except those who wept for Sa’d.’”
Tabari VIII:62/Ishaq:496 “Ali [Muhammad’s adopted son, son-in-law, and future Caliph] said, ‘Prophet, women are plentiful. You can get a replacement, easily changing one for another.’”
Ishaq:496 “Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.’ So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, ‘Tell the Apostle the truth.’”
Qur’an 24:1 “(This is) a surah which We have revealed and made obligatory and in which We have revealed clear communications that you may be mindful. For the woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah. And let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.” Qur’an 24:6 “And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth.”

Posted by: cross at November 10, 2004 11:59 AM

To Cross..

Muslim say: 'Allahu Akbar' which means 'MY GOD IS GREATER' - than your god..

Posted by: Mahdi Al-Dajjal at November 10, 2004 12:54 PM

#1 there is only one G-d so quit this argument. The problem is arrogance of Muslims who come to the west and try to turn it into a Sharia country. Not going to happen so, if you can't acculturate, back your tents and go back to wherever the hell you came from.

Posted by: eneri at November 10, 2004 1:21 PM

Those who profess to be followers of islam share these personnal traits, there are many others.

1. Possesses Low Self Esteem.
2. Feelings of Inferiority (Hence the My God is best syndrome)
3. Poorly educated
4. Fear
5. Highly susceptable to peer pressure

Educated jizzlamic leaders don't beleive this quranic catshit just like any other educated person does'nt. Only a complete fool could beleive this.

What say you about this...

Ishaq:243 “I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!’ He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks…. Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom.” [9:61] “Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey’s.’”
Ishaq:144 “A rock was put on a slave’s chest. When Abu Bakr complained, they said, ‘You are the one who corrupted him, so save him from his plight.’ I will do so,’ said Bakr. ‘I have a black slave, tougher and stronger than Bilal, who is a heathen. I will exchange him. The transaction was carried out.”
Qur’an 9:97 “The Arabs of the desert are the worst in unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger.”
Tabari II:11 “Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks.”
Tabari II:21 “Ham [Africans] begat all those who are black and curly-haired, while Japheth [Turks] begat all those who are full-faced with small eyes, and Shem [Arabs] begat everyone who is handsome of face with beautiful hair. Noah prayed that the hair of Ham’s descendants would not grow beyond their ears, and that whenever his descendants met Shem’s, the latter would enslave them.”
Tabari IX:69 “Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in Allah’s Cause. Killing him is a small matter to us.”
Bukhari: V9B89N256 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘You should listen to and obey your ruler even if he is a black African slave whose head looks like a raisin.’”
Ishaq:405 “It is your folly to fight the Apostle, for Allah’s army is bound to disgrace you. We brought them to the pit. Hell was their meeting place. We collected them there, black slaves, men of no descent.
Ishaq:374 “The black troops and slaves of the Meccans cried out and the Muslims replied, ‘Allah destroy your sight, you impious rascals.’”
Bukhari:V4B52N137 “The Prophet said, ‘Let the negro slave of Dinar perish. And if he is pierced with a thorn, let him not find anyone to take it out for him.... If he [the black slave] asks for anything it shall not be granted, and if he needs intercession [to get into paradise], his intercession will be denied.’”

Posted by: cross at November 10, 2004 1:34 PM

Oh, Mahdi Al-Dajjal. I will pray that God deliver you from the devil you worship. For your own sake, compare the life of Jesus with the life of Mohammed. Your soul can still be saved if you so desire.

Posted by: former liberal WF at November 10, 2004 1:44 PM

Mahdi Al-Dajjal - Oppression? Oppression is committed by the backward ass, century warped leaders of the Middle East, not the West. They're the ones who pocket all the oil and financial aid money, money that comes from us. Money comes from us, and food comes from us. Since nothing can grow in the sand, Muslims should be more polite, because we're the ones that keep them fed and alive, (why I'm beginning to wonder).

Not all Muslims are horrible, but most of the ones I've seen are arrogant, illiterate shitheads.

Dumb, duped, brainwashed Muslims, always blaming everyone for their shortcomings but themselves........

BTW thanks so much for quoting the Qur'an for us....it just proves our point.

Posted by: DCWatson at November 10, 2004 2:32 PM

The New Movie.

"THE MOSQUES OF MENICE" The announcer says....Aaaand nooooooow, coming to a theatre near you, the long awaited true story of Maaayheeeem and Muuurdeeeer,THE MOSQUES OF MENICE!!! ....(Ta Dum)..

Movie review says "This movie is awesome, best film of the year" nominated for academy award for best actor, starring Ahmed the Assassin. Brilliant! exclaims the BBC film critic, brit the ass, absolutly riveting, destined to be classic. Caution! warns liberal whiners from the peanut gallery, "this could incite violence against islam". Also available on home DVD and VHS. Check local times and listings. This film is rated MS for must see.

Posted by: cross at November 10, 2004 2:48 PM

D.C. Watson is laughing at the last entry....Thanks

Posted by: DCWatson at November 10, 2004 3:06 PM

'Muslim say: 'Allahu Akbar' which means 'MY GOD IS GREATER' - than your god..'
Posted by: Mahdi Al-Dajjal

Mahdi, which God of yours is greater, Allah, or Mohammad?

Moslems claim they are monotheistic, yet all Moslems worship Mohammad with their actions! Maybe its one god at a time?

Posted by: Bar at November 10, 2004 3:10 PM

Mahdi Al-Dajjal:

How much do you expect the peaceful muslims to take from people they are superior to in every way?

Peaceful Muslims?

Beslan school children killed by Islamic Terrorists
12 Nepali Civilians Murdered
September 11th
Killing Women, Children, and the Elderly is Permitted

I could go on, but I'm sure everyone gets the point: There is more than enough evidence to suggest that your peaceful Muslims are anything but.

Posted by: Infidel at November 10, 2004 3:33 PM

The Madhi has a rare thing in the Moslem world: A sense of fun. To translate him into English, and even to spoil his fun for the day, his name is "Messaih, the Anti-Christ." He's funny, I think, because Islan portrays Dajjal as the opposite of Mohammed, hence the anti-Christ. If Moslems ever catch this jolly jokers he'll be in big trouble. Look what they do to people who offend them. Look what we do.

Posted by: sonofwalker at November 10, 2004 4:46 PM

The media reports just confirm what non-Muslims realize about Islam,the psychological terror used by Islamists is part of their attempt of submission to accept Sharia laws and an Islamic State.

For the Muslims that are now about to respond to my claim and say to me "Prove it" ,just look at the fear being inficted on the media,while overt violence and murder by Muslims is presented to the public as "Alleged" crime by a Muslim,the recent vandalism to Islamic buildings was instantly blamed on non-Muslims and now Churches are being fire-bombed and threats of more violence by middleEast Jihadists if the attack on muslims doean't stop.
Ask yourself this,why is it a professed devoute follower of Islam can brutaly shoot and stab a non-Muslims in public and be portrayed as a "Alleged" killer,yet without one person being arrested for vandalism on Mosques the media has free reign to declare the attacks as done by Christian Dutch in retaliation.
This type of psychological terror in also used here in Canada,Muslims claim they have no choice
but to defend Islam and the persons defaming Muhammed or the Quran only bring the violence
upon themselves for prevoking Muslims.

The Dutch have every right to resist a foreign invading aggressor that has plans for full occupation and the murdering of any decenting opinion,the Mujadahine is the Army of Islam and therefor a valid target for the Dutch to take up arm and defeat the occupier.
Rememberance day for Canada is tomorrow and how sad that thousands of young men died to rid Holland of the murderous facist occupiers,yet 60 years later the Islamists just might do whet the Nazis couldn't,take over Holland and impose fascist Sharia law enforce by a Islamic Government ruled by the Quran.

I'm sick of the Muslims playing the victim,either accept your faith as violent and murderous and take responsibility,or leave it for one that preaches forgiveness,tolerance,love for enemies,charity all year round (not just Ranadan) ,respect for females,no obsurd costumes that restrict certain employment,and a repsect for God's children that don't follow a faith started by a man that had sex with a child.

Posted by: ala-sux at November 10, 2004 4:52 PM

Mahdi Al-Dajjal:
Don't you have a goat to "tend" to?

Posted by: Rottweiller at November 10, 2004 4:56 PM

Not sure how to read Mahdi Al-Dajjal -- as a poster kidding us about some of the rather excessive language used around here from time to time or a troll.

There was a character who wrote letters to the (Toronto, Canada) Globe & Mail and would sign himself Mamzer Ben Yona (B@st@ard Son of a wh0re)and write rather sickeningly fawning letters about editorials that (and here my memory is getting a little vague -- we're going back more than 5 years)were even slightly "pro" Israel.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 10, 2004 5:07 PM

I would swear he has posted here before- uncertain. I thought he was being extremely sarcastic. Myabe he'll come back and set us straight one way or the other.

Posted by: Gary at November 10, 2004 5:13 PM

THE NAZI ROOTS OF TODAY'S JIHAD:

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/index.htm

Posted by: Rottweiller at November 10, 2004 5:18 PM

I was thinking of Kafka's story of the Great Wall of China. Kafka wrote that the chinese did not start at one end and work across the country till they finished, but people in each village built their own sections outward until they connected with their neighbor, at which point the Wall became Great.

If we try, as is so tempting to do, to save the whole world starting here and now and move onward to Damascus, I fear for our chances of real success. If we do each our own little part in our community and connect to the next, our network will indeed connect woth the Dutch, and with all others at risk of anihilation by the barbarians of islam.

Again, I suggest a leaflet campaign to create personal networks. I don't see it as a campaign to educate but to gather in those who are atuned now and who long for more concrete actions only possible with greater numbers. Firebombing mosques, as much fun as it probably is, doesn't hurt islam itself. However, if one creates the conditions in which the politics of confrontation draws new members to either side, then the work is fruitful. It pays to plan. To have a goal. To have Strategies and contingencies. It pays to have a broad array of tactics and types of cadres, from legitimate public figures to shady and disturbing men in the background. It begins with making friends. Clandestine networks can remain small and autonomous, not a large loss to the over-all movemnt if one is lost. It starts by knowing who your friends are, and moving in wider circles, leaving behind those who've taken your previous position to spread the campaign themselves.

We can't do everything for the Dutch if we can't do the first thing about people who murdered our in the thousands, and then danced in the streets of Ramallah to celebrate it.

If one has the foundation of a network, then a strategy of confrontation to sharpen the lines of conflict is brilliant. But to try to avenge a fat Dutchman murdered while riding his bike in Amsterdam, we can't do anything real at all. He can be another brick in the wall of martyres in the war against evil, perhaps. We need living people who can organize concretely. Then, if the situation is better served by firebombing a mosque in order that it encourages the opposition to firebomb a church, it's tactically sound. but if the strategy is to firebomb the enemy out of existence, we've lost before we started.

Posted by: sonofwalker at November 10, 2004 6:09 PM

Could it be?......

Mahdi Al Dajjal, AKA hatshepsut, AKA Karl. Hmmmmm

Posted by: krkrjak at November 10, 2004 7:07 PM

That saves me. I wasn't sure that creature was named Kurt or Kent or some combination thereof. Now I know. I won't mis-name him if ever I happen to make reference to that !@#$.

Posted by: sonofwalker at November 10, 2004 7:40 PM

C,mon,

This Mahdi Al-Dajjal is yanking our chain. No self-respecting Isamist talks that way "Smite them all, send them al to hell, my god can beat up your god" etc.

They will all apologize or evade or transfer blame to the "oppressors". After all, the big Mo taught them to not smite ALL the merchants in the caravans, you need some around to support you while your lying in your haram debating degrees of erection in the afterlife.

Posted by: CornHolio at November 10, 2004 8:21 PM

Now that his tag is unfurled he won't likely use it again; but we can probably expect him to return under a new and better name, perhaps Mahdi Gras. Van Gogh might have enjoyed all this.

Posted by: sonofwalker at November 10, 2004 8:47 PM

Before I submit again tonight to the Flu god, I'd like to mention briefly that if I were competent at computing, I would make a landscape page with three columns. On the left I'd take the google image of "bomber baby" as a graphic, and a bold title such as Islam and children. In the middle column, I'd take suras and ahadith do to with kids, (those would be the nasty quotations,) and I'd keep them short. On the right coulumn, I'd put in an e-mail address saying that if one were interested in discussing this topic further, then coffee at Mc.Donald's on a Tuesday night at 7:00 would be fine. No exceptions.

I'd find myself a place where, unless I were like the man I actually am, I'd find people like myself. I'd stand and ask if they'd like a hand-out on babies, (and that baby is so cute!) not arguing with those who would care to debate the right or wrong but to fish for those who are already anxious and desperate to fine kindred souls.

I would say: "I'm one person among many today who are all across the world handing out this brochure on children and islam. In nations all around the world today, between 2:00 and 4:00 we're giving out this information to show what Islam says about babies and children. We'll be doing this every Sunday at the same time for the duration.

those who make the effort to arrive for coffee on time will be people who might in time be friends and cohorts. They'll find their own corners on a Sunday, and thus will the network grow.

If I had any idea how to do such things, I'd organize it myself. I do not know how to use this damn machine, and I can hardly type.

What I would do is meet the following day for a post-mortem here to discuss the good and bad. Once the idea of a network developes, the network itself would grow. Most people like other people. Others explode. We could make friends and create a grass-roots movement from which we could eventually grow into a genuine movement.

Power rests in the hands of the people, though they don't often seem to realize it. The simultaneity of the leafleting is a sure sign of that power. It's one reason the umma is attractive to some people. For the rest of us, people are people we like because we like them. People who like each other and who have a righteous cause to work for, those are powerful people.

That's what I would do if I knew how. But I'm sick and incompetent. I can hand out leaflets, though.

Posted by: sonofwalker at November 10, 2004 9:28 PM

I bet that the muslims will desecrate Van Gogh`s grave and perhaps the whole cemetary.
In Holland the cycle of violence has begun with the horrible murder of Theo Van Gogh....
Dutch people will retalliate to some degree,which will bring about even greater retalliation from muslim fanatics living in the Netherlands.
I`m amazed of that poll results:only 40% of the dutch population are against muslim immigration?!!...they are being invaded by an evil army that wants to turn Holland into an islamic state governed by the infamous sharia,and less than half of the population is aware of it??!!!

Posted by: adela at November 11, 2004 12:02 AM

mo was an evil fuck
and will always inspire others
to be the same.
And no matter how 'liberal' an islamic community may think it is,
it will always produce its share of conservatives and fundamentalists,
and there will always be a few in those groups who try to walk in mo's footsteps - and kill non moslems.
islam will also attract non muslims who convert and, accepting the poison with the zeal of a convert, become a danger to us.

i s l a m is the problem

we must face this

Posted by: dby at November 11, 2004 12:46 AM

Re. Van Gogh's funeral:
"...A sarcastic letter was read out to Mr van Gogh’s killer, promising “we will do our very best to learn more about your beliefs to prevent further misunderstanding” and apologising that the killing “had to happen in the middle of Ramadan”....

Sounds interesting. Anyone know if this letter was printed /appears online anywhere? I'm fascinated by the liberal trait of instinctively wanting to apologize every time one gets whacked, I'd like to circulate the letter around.

BTW, I think it's pretty obvious that "Mahdi Al Dajjal" ain't for real.

Posted by: Sycamore at November 11, 2004 2:17 AM

here is an interesting article about Theo Van Gogh and his movie Submission.

He was very outspoken about Islam in his column and also on his website.

If you go to the site this story is from you can also see a shot from the movie.

There is also alot about Hirsi Ali in the article and how politicians in the Netherlands thought she was a crackpot concerning her critisim of Islam.

www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=11236

Unmasking Islamic domestic violence
The central message claimed in the 10-minute film "Submission, part 1", is that the Koran preaches Muslim women should submit to Allah in all things — and that their men should beat them when they are judged to have stepped out of line. Cormac Mac Ruairi reports on the controversy the short film has provoked in the Netherlands.

A woman in dark robes places a prayer mat on the floor and she begins to pray to Allah. She is surrendering to her God and Allah's wishes as expressed in the holy Koran.

When the camera moves closer, we see all is not as it first appears: her garments are transparent and her breasts are clearly visible. The Koran forbids all Muslims — men and women — to show themselves naked in public.

And though it is probably not strictly banned, we can only imagine the quotes from the Koran written in calligraphy on her body must also breach the spirit of Islamic religious law. The depicted texts from the Koran deal with the perscribed punishments for women who "misbehave".

As the film continues, we hear four tragic stories of women being forced into arranged marriages, being whipped, beaten and raped. We see images of backs marked by a whip and a woman's face reduced to a bloody pulp by her man's fists.

All the time these women, we are told, are meant to surrender themselves to Allah and accept their fate.

The film has provoked a lot of controversy since it was shown on Sunday when its writer, Somali-born MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali, was interviewed on the "Zomergasten", or Summer Guests, programme.

But the film Submission has little new to say that Hirsi Ali has not said before.

Since her election to the Dutch Parliament one and a half years ago, she has doggedly criticised the treatment of women under Islam, both in immigrant communities in the Netherlands and overseas.

She has made headlines for describing Islam as backward and its prophet Mohammed as a pervert because he married a 12-year-old girl.

Remarks like that have drawn the wrath of fundamentalists: her life has been threatened more than once and she is accompanied everywhere by armed security officers.

Her criticism of Islam has been very heavy-handed and even some liberal thinkers have tended to dismiss her as an embittered crank. (She fled, aged 22, to the Netherlands when her father tried to force her into an arranged marriage in Kenya in 1991.)

But with Submission, part 1, Hirsi Ali is continuing her campaign, no matter how uncomfortable her message might be to Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

Her message remains as uncompromising as ever and the semi-nudity provides the necessary dose of shock value that always seem to accompany her public statements.

But this time round she has teamed up with Theo van Gogh, one of the most brilliant, if controversial, directors in the Netherlands to make her case through art.

One reviewer has described the movie as a monologue, but it is more in the tradition of the political pamphlets of the 17th and 18th centuries. The arguments are drawn with broad strokes and there is no room for equivocation or even-handedness. If the form veers towards the sensational or caricature, all the better to get attention and stimulate debate.

Van Gogh is not one to censure out a naked body when the script demands it — and Hirsi Ali says it does. The woman's nakedness strips away the cloak of the veil and reveals Muslim woman are just like everyone else; flesh and blood humans, she claims.

The Koran tells women to cover themselves up and submit to Allah in all things
At first glance, Hirsi Ali and director Van Gogh are a bit of an odd couple. She is slim and immaculately turned out, he is rotund, dresses "casually" with braces, and chain-smokes.

What they have in common is a drive to state their point of view forcibly, sometimes to the point of enraging their audiences and alienating people. And neither seems to care.

Hirsi Ali was a member of the Labour PvdA party, but she left spectacularly in 2002. Having had to flee to the US following death threats in the Netherlands, she claimed the social democrats in the PvdA were only paying lip-service to women's rights, particularly when it comes to rights for women in immigrant and Muslim communities.

She joined the right-wing Liberal VVD which welcomed her call for Muslims to integrate into Dutch society. But even there, some of her pointed condemnations of Islam have sent her party colleagues running for cover.

VVD leaders Gerrit Zalm and Jozias van Aartsen have come out this week to express support for the central message of the film, but Zalm spoke for many would-be supporters when he added: "That naked body, eh...".

Writer and director Van Gogh is used to stirring things up too and could be described as the Netherlands' Michael Moore.

He has been hired and fired many times as a columnist, he publishes his own internet page — entitled "De Gezonde Roker", or The Healthy Smoker — featuring his thoughts on Islam (negative), hypocrisy (negative) and a lot of other subjects (usually negative).

Van Gogh is an artist with a passion for commenting on current events. He has published a compilation of his columns in book form entitled Allah weet het beter, or Allah knows best.

His remarks can sometimes be very offensive and totally unfounded. Van Gogh once said "Muslims are goatf***ers", accuses Dutch-Moroocan website Maghreb.nl.

He is currently making a movie about Pim Fortuyn, the populist politician and critic of Islam who was murdered in Hilversum in May 2001. Earlier this month, cinema giant Pathe refused to show Van Gogh's movie Cool!, a story about a group of Moroccan criminals.

Van Gogh paid the EUR 18,000 price tag for Submission which was filmed in secret in a month. The dialogue is in English and Van Gogh says he wants to sell it everywhere.

"I am going to send it to Arabic news channel Aljazeera. They broadcast (Osama) bin Laden's little films so they won't have a problem with this," he quipped.

Given its subject matter though, Submission might never make top billing in cinemas in countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran or Afghanistan. He has been given bodyguards as a result of the controversy.

Theo van Gogh: a joker with a serious message?
"That naked body" has created quite a stir in the media and on a multitude of internet forums, from a chat room on Dutch politics to one for gay Turkish men. A correspondent on the latter saying Hirsi Ali and Van Gogh will do anything for attention.

Mohammed Sini of the Dutch foundation Islam and Citizenship told the Dutch media that Submission had gone too far and insulted many Muslims.

At the same time, he said many Muslims in the Netherlands felt their identity was under siege and, as a result, clung too rigidly to the Koran. He said Muslims should not accept everything in the Koran too literally.

Other mainstream political parties have been broadly positive about the film, but the Christian Democrat CDA has so far stonewalled and refused to express an opinion.

The leader of the green-left GroenLinks party, Femke Halsema, said the film could have been slightly more refined and Hirsi Ali came across as a bit triumphant.

"I grew up with the film 'Turks Fruit' so I am fairly used (to the nudity)... but I really enjoyed the evening's viewing," she said.

Not everyone will react in the same way, but like the pamphleteers of old, Hirsi Ali and Van Gogh have certainly stoked up a lively debate.

The zomergasten programme featuring the interview with Hirsi Ali and the screening of Submission will be repeated on Ned 3 on Saturday 4 September 2004 at 1.08pm.

Posted by: susan_b at November 11, 2004 5:07 AM

I agree with Sycamore's last line.

BTW.. I've been posting here pretty much since this site's inception. Most of the long-term regulars here, including Mr. Spencer, are familiar with my vehement dislike for all things islamic..

From time to time I post a sarcastic mockery of an over-the-top anti-Infidel reply to the article at hand. The posts follow the same themes.. They're the victims.. They're oppressed.. They're peaceful. They're only reacting to provocations by infidels to which they are superior in every way. And so on..

I end the post with the typical islamic exhortation to their satanic death-god Allah wherein merely crying out for vengence, death to the infidel and eternal damnation for them all is simply not enough to ask for. Thus.. the added plea to also ensure that the infidel's stomachs get roasted in hell, or their skins boiled in oil and their eyeballs ripped from their heads. BTW.. Most of this stuff is straight out of Baghdad Bob's personal prayer book.

I'm still laughing at a reply to a similar post months ago. The reply read: "... and Mahdi old chap.. everyone knows that stomachs of evil and godless ones are best grilled over a low heat. Roasting is so 7th century." Too funny!

To Sonofwalker.. Dead-on analysis of my nom-de-plume.. It too is a mockery of islam's anti-christ messiah that muslims pray will come and help them finish conquering the world. Their messiah IS the anti-christ - Mahdi Al-Dajjal.

Posted by: Mahdi Al-Dajjal at November 11, 2004 9:33 AM

Ahhh, satire.....got me.....good one.....kudos

Posted by: DCWatson at November 11, 2004 3:24 PM

Mahdi Al-Dajjal, I haven't been on this board long enough to see your previous incarnations.
Anyway, lets drink to smiting necks, grills, boiling oil, iron hooks, vengeance and hellfire. And perpetual victims.

Posted by: Sycamore at November 11, 2004 4:09 PM

Mahdi al-Dajjal:
It was absolulely great. However, patting mayself on the back, I did catch on right away.
Could not wait for replies. The replies to your satire were not as inflamed as I thought they would be.
Would really enjoy having you put same posting on MYPETJAWA. I promise you will bet plenty of action there.

Posted by: greyrooster at November 11, 2004 8:00 PM

Having lived in The Netherlands from 1987 till 1991, I was warning my Dutch friends (professors, lawyers, shop owners, artists, writers, small business poeple, neighbors, Holocaust-survivors, and on and on) against the 'cuckoo's eggs' they were inviting into their country -from Turkey and Morocco, etc. by the tens and hundred of thousands in an ill-conceived 'guest-worker' program. (There was even a book BANNED IN HOLLAND around 1990 called "De Ondergang Van Nederland- land van de stomme dwazen"- "The Downfall of the Netherlands- land of the naive fools", which was literally taken off the shelves by their politically correct police, because it warned agains the Muslim undermining of the Netherlands!) I said that the Dutch (and all in the West) were 'selling pitchforks to the devil' by supplying those of the Islamic tradition, who never went through an Age of Reason- which tempered the fanaticism of Christianity (after 1500 years of their own brand of inquisitions and holy terror), with all of the advanced technology and comforts and freedoms of the West. (Subsidized housing, health care, job placement, ad absurdum.) But, sadly, my Dutch friends thought I was an exaggerating 'cowboy American'. I explained that the West should never have supplied followers of Islam with anything more advanced than the wheel, since they have refused to accept the Aristotelean understanding that the secular-scientific method is the only one that guarantees freeedom of thought. By allowing doubt- the true soil of all progress. What is the first line of the (un-politically correct, older translation) of the Q'uran (Koran):"This book is not to be doubted." How can a person with more than a walnut for a brain accept THIS before even being allowed to see what they are being forbidden TO doubt? An intellectually insulting premise for yet another patriarchal, totalitarian-tending pre-New Testament mindset, as bad as the Old Testament God that caused the ancient Jews so many problems, and had them slaughtering Canaanites, etc. during their own Holy War period.* I praised the Dutch people's tolerance- from Spinoza's sheltering to printing the first English language Bibles (while the English on their Green and Glorious Island were not only burning the smuggled-in books, but their author as well)-, but I tried to tell them that the deviously evolved bird the cuckoo should be their metaphorical hinge for the fate that awaited them. It lays its eggs in other birds' nests, which then hatches sooner, kills the true heirs, and is fed by the unsuspecting parents of the murdered children. Holland was becoming a nest for the re-invasion ("Remember Peter Martell?" I asked. They didn't.) of Europe by its old sworn enemies, the followers of intolerant, globally-minded, tyranno-theocractic absolutists of Mohammad. Whether they call themselves followers of a 'God' or not, their ends are a total destruction of the freedom of mind and spirit and belief that we have only just finally won in the West. Hitler and Stalin and Mao being recent 'secular' versions of this same anti-rational impulse. Islam demands that it be accepted as THE faith for the whole world. And must then become the Government and Law of the Earth entire. Or YOU must die if you disagree. My reply is the same as an earlier freethinker: "Give me Liberty or give me death." Although I would amend it slightly, nowadays, to read: "Give me liberty, and give you death." Since the choice has been forced on the West- and all who follow the classical idea of Rational Humanity as the only safe course for this world. I have been sending notes of sympathy to all of my grieving Dutch friends. ("Sterkte hoor!"-"Strength pals".) And hope that the slaughter of free-thinker, satirist and theater of the absurd artist and Socratic gadfly Theo Van Gogh will wake them from their delusional dream of 'accepting' those who scorn their acceptance and 'understanding' those who revile Understanding to its Greco-Roman root. I wish the Muslims would wake from their tyrannical theocratic patriarchal daydream (see "MuslimsWakeUp" online for no hope of this happening...sadly...), and, if not, that the West stops allowing them to learn nuclear physics in its historically-blind universities, prevents them from buying advanced computer technologies from our suppliers, and hope the West would come up with alternative fuels so that their oil is reduced to nothing more than a source of pollution for their meager groundwater. "Epistomology, or doom!" should be the new Western watchwords. In plain language: we MUST ask the Muslims- "How do you know what you know?" And: "How can one know anything?"
They never plumb the philosophical depths of Belief or the meaning of ANY Knowledge, so they can get away with their proclamations of Undoubtable faith unchallenged. (This also endangers the Absolutisms of all religions, but the Christians and Jews have finally developed a sense of humor and self-questioning without resorting to murder of 'heretics' anymore, so it is less of a problem... otherwise the members of Monty Python would have been killed on the streets of London by evangelicals for their film "The Life of Brian".) Let us oppose all forms of tyranny over the mind of humans, as Thomas Jerrson put it. And work for a free world. And laugh down the lunatics, if that will work, -or fight them to the death if it won't. Inshallah? ----------------------------- [*Before they smashed up against bigger, stronger States, like the Persians and Romans, and ended up scattered across the globe for their own 'holy' hubris. The Jews are still in denial about their own intolerant root religious text, the Torah, which, if followed as strictly as Islam has been lately, brings the same theocratic tyranny as a result. But they don't have 'the numbers', so the world is less concerned, but let's not gloss over the fact that Mohammad essentially lifted (AKA stole) he entire religion from the Jews, with a smattering of syntax and imagery from the Christians -although he cut out all of the "Prince of Peace' stuff as unsuited to the militant tendency he wanted to use to conquer the world with. ]

Posted by: profitsbeard at November 11, 2004 11:13 PM

Naturally, above, I meant "EPISTEMOLOGY" (, OR DOOM!) ('Epistomology' is a discipline that does not yet exist... perhaps it should mean: "The science of Not Proofreading Carefully Enough".) Sorry. "Duizend gratie!" as the Dutch say. ('A thousand pardons.')

Posted by: profitsbeard at November 11, 2004 11:38 PM

The Dutch people should be supported in their heroic stand against midevil Islamic barbarism.

Nossy

Posted by: Nostrodamus at November 12, 2004 12:15 AM

Here's a website, found while doing a search for Theo Van Gogh's 'apostate' film "Submission" which might give a little cheer that there are some counter-tendencies within Islam:

www.wae.org/islam/free-islam.htm

Enjoy! (peace be unto y'all)

Posted by: profitsbeard at November 12, 2004 1:53 AM

You can kill all moslem in the world like Hitler kill Jewish...now history repeat and you can yourself civilized people.

Posted by: lanang at November 12, 2004 3:55 AM