Is a transcript of the entire debate availible?

Oh yeah... FIRST!

and second...

Here is Taheri's article in full.

http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/4462

I'm sure the irony of voting democratically to determine the democratic compatibility of Islam won't be lost on the audience.

Where's a decisive, fascistic fatwa when you need one? ;)

Ibn Rushd,

I was looking for the full debate, not just Mr Taheri's comments. IT isn't often you get so many heavy hitters together to debate the issue. I'd like to hear what they all have to say.

Intelligence squared website:

http://www.intelligencesquared.com/event_past.php?d=20040518

Transcripts apparently unavailable; videos available for purchase.

The fundamental problem here is that many Westerners equate "freedom" and "democracy" with license. Islam is Allah's (swt) perfect plan for man's life on Earth. There is a rule for every human action. If a Muslim does not know Allah's (swt) command in any situation, he or she must obtain a ruling (fatwa) from a recognized Islamic scholar. Every such ruling must provide evidence from the Holy Quran and/or Sunnah.

That said, there are instances where "democratic" voting is appropriate. For example, political leaders are elected in Iran. In fact, the Caliphs were elected.

True peace and freedom are possible only when one lives in accord with the prescriptions of Almighty Allah (swt). Men and jinn were created to praise and worship Allah, not for any other reason.

Allahu akbar

Reza:

That said, there are instances where "democratic" voting is appropriate. For example, political leaders are elected in Iran.

Of course, the only candidates allowed on the ballot in Iran are those approved by the mullahs.

Minor detail...

I looked all over the site and couldn't find the debate, just his comments. At least we have half of the debate. I don't think Esposito's comments will be available on his site. I thought I was being helpful with the post. At least he said the PBS show was wrong.

Reza,

“True peace and freedom?”

As I cited in another post (which, BTW, arxos hasn’t responded to) there were 21 wars since 1980. The vast majority of wars from 1980-Present (18 of 21) were caused by or participated in by Muslims, at a cost of 3.516 million dead.

The cold comfort of the grave is not what most of us would refer to as “peace,” yet it seems to be Islam’s true and most lasting export.

Reza:

True peace and freedom are possible only when one lives in accord with the prescriptions of Almighty Allah (swt).

Am I the only one who noticed the distinctly Orwellian message here?

This is what Islam does to people:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/13/60minutes/main617270.shtml

"There was a trial in Lille where a 13-year-old girl was gang raped by 80 men. "A young woman was raped in a school. Of course, everybody knew, but they're so afraid of these young men that they prefer to close their eyes. That's the price of peace in the ghettos." Eighteen teenagers were convicted of raping a 15-year-old girl over a two-month period. But what really shocked France was how the mothers of those boys reacted. "You call this justice, seven years in prison for some oral sex," says one mother. "It's the girl who should be behind bars."

From the news page http://www.faithfreedom.org/newspage.php3

reza:

Thanks for making it all clear for me.

Judaism, for example, is based on the same principle behind the russian saying "Pray to G-d, but keep rowing to the shore".

If what you've said are really your beliefs it puts the problem right in the table.

Muslims don't want to row and expect G-d to do the rowing for them. "There is a rule for every human action"... means humans not taking responsability for their actions and resorting to the deterministic nature of pre-written rules.

Well, so be it. Let's see, at the end, who is right: those who keep rowing to the shore or those who expect somebody else to row for them.

Essentially, based upon kyber's interpretation of Reza's comments, are we to then understand that Islam is nothing more than monotheistic welfare?

...which would make fatwas their free government cheese...

REZA:

Your post outlines the fundamental failure of the islamic political system. According to you, representative government is irrelevant because:

"Islam is Allah's (swt) perfect plan for man's life on Earth. There is a rule for every human action. If a Muslim does not know Allah's (swt) command in any situation, he or she must obtain a ruling (fatwa) from a recognized Islamic scholar. Every such ruling must provide evidence from the Holy Quran and/or Sunnah."

Who can participate in the will of God, right? And who can divine the will of God? In your model, you have a few islamic 'scholars' who alone have the right to interpret the will of God.

Your answer no doubt is that the quran and other texts must be cited to back up the decrees of these self-appointed authorities. Unfortunately the quran is an outdated manual from 7th century Arabia. It does not have in its pages the prescription for every complex situation of 'man's life on earth'.

What you end up with is power concentrated in the hands of very few clerics, legislating on topics that were inconceivable during muhammed's time. All the while, these clerics claiming that they alone have the authority to interpret the divine.

Your system is shallow, unjust, and ultimately unsustainable. Far from creating a political atmosphere of 'true peace and freedom', what you get instead is the taliban. Aspects of humanity that have no reference in the dusty pages of the quran are simply dismissed as evil and un-muslim. Human advancement is reduced to that of medieval islam.

The roots of western government once embraced your mentality. The Christian Roman emperors were, by their right, God's will on earth. Times changed though. The West did not find itself permanently stuck in the past. Give your system a chance and who knows, maybe even the taliban will be able to land a man on the moon in 2,000 years?

Reza, Looks like you always provide us with our own little debate.

"Perfect plan for mans earth" in a democracy, are'nt you forgetting women? Also, democracy would represent differing opinions, would'nt this also mean free will?

Islam does not allow free will. Your own comment "there is a rule for every human action". But then this is open to translation according to how extreme you are, or how you would want to apply those rules to your life. The problem is that if you view yourself more rightous then another muslim then you believe that you have the right to take that persons life. I bet I can name muslims that are more rightous than you. Can I send them you address and phone number?

And then "obtain a ruling from a recognized Islamic scholar". Recognized by who? A scholar of what form of Islam? Only the scholars that you believe? What would you do to the Islamic scholars that are more educated then you are but disagree with you? Because they believe that they are more rightous then you.

Islam will never allow democracy. Islam will be in military control of it country, people, and goverment (what ever form is allowed). Islam does not allow for free will, education, health care, or economic growth.

Free will, will be put down.
Health care, as long as the western Red Cross is there.
Education, for boys not girls.
Economic Growth, this and all of the above at the expense of the West. The west is paying for almost everyone of your Islamic countries to exist. Thanks to democracy and not Islam.

Wait a minute!

You guys are missing a point we accidentally stumbled across. I’ve always been perplexed as how liberals such as Ted “Thank God Fat Floats” Kennedy could support a group even more to the right than the neoCons.

Now that we know Islam is monotheistic welfare, we can now understand that Reza and his kind have gone so far to the right that they’ve actually gone all the way around the bend, and are leftists.

It makes a crazy sort of sense, but what do you expect from a religion that places so much emphasis on 72 virgins, when they can’t even threat the one they have decently?

I actually meant to type "treat the one they have decently," but that works, too.

Bob-
you know that is a very good point.

I wonder if they will beat them and gang rape them?

what happens when they use up thier 72 virgins? Are they allowed to gang rape other peoples virgins?

I am sure that they are excited about getting virgins since all of the girls have already had sex with dad and brothers by the age of 6 or 7. They don't have any virgins of age.

It is pretty sad that women serve no purpose on earth and obviously no purpose in paradise other than sex.

When the muslim women go to paradise what do they get? To be left alone from dad, brothers and gang rapes?

What do Muslim women have to look forward to in the afterlife? Does it matter? It has to be better than what they get here.

Reza:

The fundamental problem here is that many Muslims equate "Islam" and "perfection" with license. This is what happens with people think they have found absolute truth. Trying to debate Islam with a Muslim is like trying to challange the postulates of Euclidean geometry.

Mullah Mo:

You wanted to know where some of the Islamic conferences are taking place. Here you go:

http://www.isnacanada.com/

http://www.isna.net/

Have fun!

Judaism, for example, is based on the same principle behind the russian saying "Pray to G-d, but keep rowing to the shore".

"Put your trust in God, my boys - but keep your powder dry." - Oliver Cromwell.

"The more thin skinned Muslims have ended up on regarding every criticism of Islam as Islamophobia."

I think this Taher is naive. Shall I remind him and my Christian fellows to read R Spencer’s latest observation:

Article title: The Enemy is Not Just Al-Qaeda

"....It(Muslim Brotherhood, an Egyptian Fundamentalist group) ongoing involvement in violence (combined with American unwillingness to acknowledge how compelling the radical vision of Islam is to Muslims) is just more evidence that today’s fixation with Al-Qaeda could be dangerously misleading."

In other wards, we shall kill Muslims wherever they are. Don't tell me about your problems with Islam, because if you seek to destroy Islam - then you have no choice but to destroy those who believe. The US may have been built with racist foundations, but I am ashamed some people have to go this far to become assimilated. You should not expect to abuse the freedom you enjoy here to abuse the rights of other people- this is year 2K+.

To churn my stomach even worse, was the editorial from frontpagemag:
"...As we’ve listened to this prison case unfold we have heard that out of a 700 person Military Police Battalion there are seven or eight people who have poor judgment. However, the abuses they are charged with committing are mainly those of petty things like changing the eating cycle fox the prisoners, leaving the lights on 24 hours per day (sleep deprivation) and other techniques designed to break down a prisoner’s resistance to tough questions."

I don't have time, but incitement to rape is enough to put people behind bars for years - and they called it "petty". And no it wasn't "minor". There is a dedicated system to such abuses by the US government. I even remember Mustafa Dirani describing to an Israeli judge about how he was raped with a police baton by Israelis. Typically, Israel denied the use of torture, and the Israeli judge played along.

This whole prison case should not be happening at all. Those prisoners were prisoners of war and the job of our interrogators is to get them to talk. If that is what they have to do to them then so be it. It is the prisoners fault that they are there. The only reason there is so much fuss about it is because of our extremely backwards media.

Guys:

The Muslims have already TAKEN OVER the May 15 "Berg had Qur'an..." thread.

Bartb:

Those prisoners were prisoners of war

Actually, no, they weren't.

Prisoners of war are uniformed soldiers who are captured or surrender in battle.

Such prisoners are afforded specific protections under the Third Geneva Convention.

Individuals running around in civilian clothing, engaging in ambushes, bombings and espionage against our forces are NOT entitled to protection as POWs.

In fact, they may be summarily executed by the detaining power.

Christine Roberts:

Do you have a reading comprehension problem, or is English not your native language?

One or the other must be the case, based on your reading of that article.

From Bob Owens:

"You guys are missing a point we accidentally stumbled across. I’ve always been perplexed as how liberals such as Ted “Thank God Fat Floats” Kennedy could support a group even more to the right than the neoCons.

Now that we know Islam is monotheistic welfare, we can now understand that Reza and his kind have gone so far to the right that they’ve actually gone all the way around the bend, and are leftists.

It makes a crazy sort of sense, but what do you expect from a religion that places so much emphasis on 72 virgins, when they can’t even treat the one they have decently?"

Bob, you NAILED it, friend!! Great post.

Reza, Islam has never been a religion of peace. Mohammed led numerous bloody Jihads, his replacement was assassinated creating the Sunni/Shi'a rift, and every Muslim nation except Turkey was forced to convert at swordpoint. Turkey caved in rather than have their nation decimated as they were already 70% Muslim anyway. Islam is a false religion following a false god and a flase prophet. If "True peace and freedom are possible only when one lives in accord with the prescriptions of Almighty Allah", then why are Muslims still killing Muslims (and everyone else who disagrees with them) to settle minor differences? We know of your Taqiyyah and lies to promote your cult and your comments are worthless.

Reading Christine's comments and others, I suddenly realized why the left has been so exercised by Bush declaring an end to major hostilities. It wasn't the arrogance of the statement nor was it's inaccuracy. Declaring an end to major combat operations means that the Geneva Convention no longer applies to anyone captured after that date -- they are merely criminals rather than POWs.

"Do you have a reading comprehension problem, or is English not your native language?" loco91

Without being rude, can I ask you whether English is your 1st language?

Pay attention to this:
".. today’s fixation with Al-Qaeda could be dangerously misleading."

He apparently cannot get enough of killing Muslims(unless you deny more Muslims to have been killed in the name of anti-Al Qaeda). What began as a war with Al-Qaeda, is now being turned into a broad war with every Muslim.

In a nutshell, he is saying:

"The only solution to our problems is the extermination of the Muslims as a people"

Thank you for the clarification of my words lobo91. What I meant to say is that since we captured them fighting us we have the right to do what ever we want to them.
Thank you.

People:

Re: "Christine Roberts"

Please, stop feeding this illiterate troll!!!She'll eventually fly off to another moonbat colony.

Remember Hood-boy? It worked with him.

Mentat:

Thank you for the pointing out the Islamic Society of North America site for the conference info. I also stumbled across something interesting...the ISNA has sent one of its chapter Presidents to Hamtramck, Michigan to "diffuse the tensions" between Polish Catholics and muslims regarding the muslim call to prayers. SOP - they are once again involving the Archdiocese in an attempt to "build bridges"...now where have I seen that before? Apparently, this is a much more important issue than anyone may have realized.

I have never understood the 72 virgins thing...is that all those muslim men can think about? I am beginning to think they are the biggest group of pervs on the planet...with the least amount of self control...

I really like Dennis Millers thoughts on the 72 virgins...he said "And really, isn't this 72 virgins thing just a little overrated? I mean, after three or four, doesn't the thrill kind of wear off? And by Virgin 23, you're going to be begging for a pro, someone who knows when and when not to use their teeth."

http://www.hbo.com/dml/past_rants/20020531.html

Yea, I have been looking all my life. Now I know where all the virgins are.

Christine Roberts:

Without being rude, can I ask you whether English is your 1st language?

Yes, it is, which is why I had no trouble understanding the point Mr. Spencer was making: The enemy is radical fundamentalist Islam, regardless of what name its adherents choose to call themselves.

What began as a war with Al-Qaeda, is now being turned into a broad war with every Muslim.

If it were, we wouldn't be bothering with this discussion.

If we actually wanted to wipe Islam off the face of the planet, we could probably eliminate about 90% of its followers before breakfast tomorrow.

USAGirl,

ROTFLMAO!

Miller can bite for long stretches at a time, but he NAILED that one. Thanks for pointing that out. Though I don't know if Iwould go on the record as he did, though, as saying I waned a "pro."

A little too Hugh Grant, if you know what I mean...

Hmmm...well I dont think you have to be a "paid" woman to be good at something...

Read the rest of the rant...I was cracking up when he said that the suicide bombers have become too commercial...back in '88 a guy would stap on a bomb and blow himself up...now he has to make a video, pose for 8x10's etc...whatever happened to the terrorist that just did it for the love of hate..lol.

I agree sometimes he can be too much but I usually enjoy him...the comments he made about the shoe bomber were pretty funny too.

Islam really stresses the afterlife and not much on the present. Thus the belief in "pie in the sky" -- or should I say, a dozen houris in paradise.

What does (swt) mean? Sweat? Swelt? What?

Hal, long time no see.....

I have a couple guesses what SWT might mean...

mohammud(swt)

Supress With Terror

Sleeps With Three-year-olds

Shuns Whole Truth

Speaks Without Thinking

Stinks Without Trying

Christine,
"American unwillingness to acknowledge how compelling the radical vision of Islam is to Muslims" is not a call to kill Muslims, unless you happen to a fascistic little twit who thinks that the only way to deal with people with whom you disagree is to kill them.
In Christian fellowship I must say, you are a jackass.

Shuns whole Truth

That's outrageous! :-))

Everyone,
It's not 72 Virgins, It's 72 VIRGINANS and the Muslim boys are going to be mighty pissed when Washington, Lincoln etc line up to kick the 1234 out of them.
Just my thought.

Hiya D.C. Had to take some time off, but I'm back, nothing much changed. Just like the Mussies to think their god runs a heavenly whorehouse, eh? Got me a new pit bull, named him "Allah" :-)

All right Susan B,

I recognize that one. Cough up the attribution. We might not be able to abuse insurgents who are killing our troops, but by God, we can still litigate to death anyone using copyrighted material! ;-)

That was Dennis Miller also.:->

Actual (swt) definition:

Satan, We're Trying

I always thought there should be an extra S in that, then it would make sense (sswt)=spouting shit without thought.

To the muslims who might post here:

Is it allowable, under Islamic teachings, to allow the peaceful (read non-violent) coexistance of disparate beliefs without Sharia and dhimmitude? I would greatly appreciate any references from the Koran which might indicate this. Thanks.

USAGIRL
i've been trying to figure out Reas code for days now. You have it!
I didn't get past
Smokin' Weed Tonight

Hmmm. I would have thought it was more a rhetorical question: So, We're Toast?

How come you guys think that democracy is the only way to live sheesh. Like if people don't want democracy than let it be. You claim that we force Islam down your throats but you are also guilty of forcing democarcy down ours.

Yep, poor Aleph, we're forcing "you" to allow your women to have the right to contro their own destiny, and we're forcing "you" to stop slavery, and we're forcing "you" to stop genital mutilation, and we're forcing "you" to stop blowing up kids and grandmothers.

I can see why "you" are anguished. Obviously, your statements must reflect the thinking of "all" Islamite males.

Apparently, Aleph, you are scared of having to make your own decisions in a world that doesn't prescribe every action you take from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night.

Democracy is a bitch. It makes you think, ad forces you to consider that there might be another way of doing things. I'm sure that scares the hell out of people who have never had to use reason before, but once you try it, I'm sure you'll like it.

Aleph,

Oh that is so true. Thank you for bringing up this point.

You know I hate to see so many rampaging American males with Sponge Bob towels over their faces who have some helpless Arab Muslim tied to a chair as they cut off his head with a dull knife while chanting “Democracy is great”... “Democracy is great”.

Or those days when the world news is splashed with headlines that mindless American Christians are high jacking planes and flying them into The "Rent a camel" buildings in the name of Democracy.

Or that poor disillusioned Christian youth who straps a bomb to himself and wipes out some poor middle eastern Snack and Shack owner in Milwaukee in the name if Jesus.

Here is your get real stick Aleph. Please smack yourself in the head and join us in reality.

I do not see the west trying to shove Democracy down the proverbial throat of anyone. If that were the case then what happened to France, Germany and so many others?

What you do see is a complete break down of Middle Eastern society and there is an alternative. We are presenting you with opportunity to make a change, because unless you are completely blind I believe it is safe to say the middle east is not only a danger to the rest of the world but a complete and total failure as a functioning culture.

Oh and so we are all clear and on the same page we didn’t attack the Middle East first.

re: How come you guys think that democracy is the only way to live?

This comes from a belief that there are no inherent "classes" of people. True democracy (which even the U.S.A. doesn't have) requires that every citizen be given an equal voice. Democracy (as practiced in the U.S.A.) seeks to educate every citizen to the point that they can make informed decisions about which citizen to give more temporary political power to.

Besides, EVERY culture has the deeply rooted belief "Our Culture Is Best!" If this were not so, then every member of a culture without this belief would change to some other culture that looked better to them. Within one generation the culture without this belief would be gone. David Brin talked of this in his article "The Doctrine of Otherness". This "Doctrine" refers to the U.S. Liberal's stated belief that "all cultures are equal" despite their acted on belief that "being Liberal is best".

As a U.S. Moderate, I prefer to interpret the U.S.'s prediliction to push democracy as "You may have whatever culture you want SO LONG AS you let us have whatever culture we want. If you will not let us have our culture, then you must change."

Where Muslims around the world assimilate to the point of NOT wanting to forcibly change their neighbors, there are fewer conflicts. Where their neighbors have also stopped wanting to forcibly change the Muslims, there are even fewer conflicts.

[[ Replace "Muslim" in the above paragraph with any culture that has a tendency to the radical militant, even Christianity has had (and may still have) a radical militant fringe. ]]

-Jesse

"Even Christianity has had (and may still have) a radical militant fringe"

If Christians are practicing this line of philosophy then they are not practicing Christianity. For the New Testament does not teach this line of thinking.

Because someone states they are Christian does not make it so. No more then me saying I’m a Navy Seal because I was in the Navy makes me a Seal.

I'm not going to speak for the entire History of Christianity. I can only speak for modern Christianity as it is practiced today in my life time. I have spent my entire adult life in Church learning the book and how to live my life according to the life of Christ. I have NEVER heard a sermon were violence against anyone was advocated. Anything that deviates from Christ's teaching is not Christianity.

Am I saying that anyone who engages in violence is not a Christian? No I’m not saying that I’m simply saying they are not doing it in the name of Christ or in the name of their faith. They are doing it for far more fleshly reasons.

Unfortunately we can not say the same for Islam. For violence is the path Islam and Jihad is the way according to the Quran and its scholars. If you deviate from that then you are not practicing Islam.

Reza, you truly do belong to satan and the religion he created for you. Have fun in hell.

There is a story that says the word "houri" comes from the (christian) Aramean word "hur" which means grape. The writers of the Quran are said to have altered that to the more appealing virgins, ergo; "houri".

http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_1st_quran.htm

Source of this whole hearsay? A guy named Gerd Puin who has done extensive research in 1979.

http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~leem/Files/Qurantheories.html

I think that the transcript missed the word "not" in this paragraph between the words "is" and "compatible."

http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/4462

Democracy, of course, is compatible with Islam because democracy is serial and polytheistic. People are free to believe whatever they like to believe and perform whatever religious rituals they wish, provided they do not infringe on other's freedoms in the public domain.

Will Smythe:

I think that the transcript missed the word "not" in this paragraph between the words "is" and "compatible."

The transcript is just fine.

You apparently misunderstood the point of the discussion.

It is possible to be a Muslim in a democratic society.

It is NOT possible for a Muslim majority society to be truly democratic.

Look at Iran, for example. It's supposedly a democratic Islamic state, but the Mullahs have the final say regarding what candidates are allowed on the ballot.

Doesn't sound too democratic to me...

Culturally, the majority of the Middle Eastern peoples are incapable of treating their highly intrusive religion privately.

They wont do anything that ostrasize themselves from their local culture.

They will try to please the family male leaders and the social leaders, who most often are the religious mafia's run by intolerant mullahs. (Iran for good example)

So, the war on terror will really have to address the neutralization of the Madrassa's and the Wahabbi Imam's Jihad factories. (we did have to take out Japan & Germany's factories during WWII, didn't we?)

And I think a valid, substitute target of their religious aspirations has to be found and promoted - ad nasea, forever. **Be a really nice Muslim here on earth and get 114 virgins in paradise!**

Not all arabs can read well enough to understand the Koran. But nice muslims can read and enjoy a much thinner copy if we put the bad verses in really really tiny print so small you'll need a microscope to see it. But hey, it's in there!

A loophole can always be found if you look hard enough and have enough backing to promote it.

********************************************
Muhhamad's Sword is Pavlov's Bell

So, are you suggesting that Ann Coulter's "Kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity" comment should now be used as a tool of foreign policy?

Bob:

Personally, I was thinking more along the lines of, "Kill their leaders and replace them with leaders who don't tell them they have a duty to murder us."

Nazism philodophy - Master Aryan race, anti semitism et al has been successfully discredited by the Germans themselves as well as others. As a result, Nazism as a threat is very much diminished today.

Unless some of the tenets of Islam are thoroughly discredited by the Muslims themselves and others, Islam will always remain a credible and ominous threat. One of the teaching is that Islam cannot be separated from the state and hence politics. Unless that is changed and the change accepted and welcomed by Muslims, there will always be the pressure to impose what Muslim hold to be the unchanging perfect will of Allah laws (sharia) in their lives and lives of others whereever they are and reside. Hence you will find that they will insist on wearing Islamic dress to secular schools in the west, demand that they be ruled by separate Islamic custom laws (which they succeeded in Canada)etc., and seek to have enough political power to Islamize Europe and USA by immigration and high population growth.

The other basic tenet is violent jihad. None of the moderate Muslim can convincingly show from their Koran and hadiths that what OBL and other militant terrorists are inconsistents to Islamic teachings. On the contrary the life of Mohammed and their scriptures fully supported their violent jihad. Without exception every Muslim militant are motivated by their obedience to Allah.

Christianity was born out out persecution by opponents and the Church later became corrupted when it ruled Rome . Islam on the other hand emerged as a political conquest by its founder, Mohammed and has been such ever since. Personally I don't believe that Islam can reform like Christianity did and until it is recognized that Muslims are already consciously clashing against western civilization, the political correctness and tolerance of the west will lead to the gradual elimination of the western culture and civilization.

Islamo radical Nazis; lies on the Holy Talmud, refuted:
http://www.geocities.com/fightinghate/Talmud.html

Islamo radical Nazis; lies on the Holy Talmud, refuted:
Islamo radical Nazis; lies on the Holy Talmud, refuted:

Thank you Melanie for the link - and I can absolutely say that ALL of the material quoted in that link is 100% the way that Judaism teaches it. It is too bad that the Muslims don't really see the beauty of Judaism. Sad, really.

paula:

Muslims can't or won't see the beauty in ANYTHING outside of the strict narrow parameters of their cult. And it IS sad, so sad for the whole world and for mankind that it had to come to this ...

One positive may be that some Jews and Christians (historically not always the best of friends) are waking up, due to the nature of the REAL threat, to the fact that they have so much more in common than they do differences.

"Muslims can't or won't see the beauty in ANYTHING outside of the strict narrow parameters of their cult."

Folks, I know there is a tendency to want to demonize your enemies. It is human nature, because in wartime it is very difficult to do what must be done if you let the enemy be “as human” as you are. If you want a good example, look back to WWII recruiting posters for the various countries involved.

Things get heated on this bard from time to time, so I try to keep in mind that one of the most respectful, gentle, thoughtful men I’ve ever had the pleasure of working with was an Iraqi physicist from Baghdad. I met him during our nation’s first foray into Iraq, and watched him get more tired and haggard every day, watching and waiting, and wondering if his family was still alive as we all watched the bombs fall on CNN. I couldn’t believe how relieved I felt for his sake, when the war was over.

It is easy and natural to want to hate your enemy and make him less than human. But we can quickly go overboard and end up being as bad, or worse, than the people we despise. Try to keep that in mind.